Why buy Burris scopes? Here's one reason...

[Jammer Six]

When I was in business, I learned that I preferred goods made overseas.

 

[JimPag]

I'd rather buy a Made in Japan March than an American made Leupold any day of the week. The only reason that their warranty is so good at Leupold is because the can't build them right in the first place.

 

[bobinpa]

I think everyone still views KIA as a foreign company. KIA, Toyota, Honda, etc are made here because it makes business sense to make those products here. The same is true for American companies that make products in foreign countries. At the end of the day, businesses exist to increase shareholder value. Our government, on both sides of the aisle, has constructed laws and regulations that have resulted in manufacturing jobs disappearing from America. They have a choice - foreign production or no production - and they rightfully choose foreign production.

If you want to see how communism/socialism ruins economies, just look at unions. Unions are a very socialist in nature, and when you look at industries where manufacturing jobs have been sent overseas, you often find a very strong union presence. This is a global economy, and you can get pissed and say it shouldn't be, but it doesn't change the facts. Basic economics dictates that countries will export goods they make efficiently, and will import goods they make inefficiently. Unions have destroyed much of the efficiency in manufacturing, and aided by ever-increasing regulations, have pushed manufactured goods to be an import instead of an export.

The idea that foreign auto makers aren't taxed on their operations here, or that all of the money flows back to the foreign country, is simply a fallacy. The foreign car companies contribute the same per capita to the economy as Ford or GM.

I agree with most of what you say, but I don't believe that foreign companies pay as much tax here as they would their own country. Their employees and infrastructure, etc, may be taxed the same as any other company based in the US, but the taxes from the profit are paid to the homeland. I never meant to imply that all the money they make by building and selling here is sent "home", but more is sent home than stays here.

 

[bobinpa]

I have owned four Toyota 4x4 pickups. The first three were made in Japan, and were excellent vehicles. The latest (and likely last) one was made in Texas, and is BY FAR, the biggest POS of the bunch. Pretty obvious what the difference is....

As for supporting some other country's military, it's a stretch to say that buying a vehicle is building another country's military, but regardless, you do realize that Japan is an ally, right?

How can you think that it's a stretch???? If you buy a foreign product it helps the foreigner's economy. That is the same economy that builds the foreigner's military....... It's really basic and not much of a stretch at all.
Japan was our ally before WWll also, and if history is correct we sent their peace medals back with the 2 A-bombs.

 

[bobinpa]

I'd rather buy a Made in Japan March than an American made Leupold any day of the week. The only reason that their warranty is so good at Leupold is because the can't build them right in the first place.

That's pretty funny..... I currently own 24 Leupold scopes. I have owned VX-ll and VX-lll. I bought my first one in 1990. I have never had one fail and I have never needed the warranty. I have never heard of anyone being told that their Leupold couldn't be repaired from damage resulting in realistic use either. When a company says "we can't fix it" that is their way of saying "it's cheaper for us to give you another throw away scope than trying to get this POS repaired". I think Leupold's warranty is so good because they have a lot of faith in their product.

 

[JimPag]

That's pretty funny..... I currently own 24 Leupold scopes. I have owned VX-ll and VX-lll. I bought my first one in 1990. I have never had one fail and I have never needed the warranty. I have never heard of anyone being told that their Leupold couldn't be repaired from damage resulting in realistic use either. When a company says "we can't fix it" that is their way of saying "it's cheaper for us to give you another throw away scope than trying to get this POS repaired". I think Leupold's warranty is so good because they have a lot of faith in their product.

I've owned at least 20 Leupold scope, probably 5 went back for repairs. They make a decent hunting scope, but to me the Competition scope had more than there share of problems. I've seen multiple Comps new and the early ones fail at matches. Numerous times they came back and they still didn't fix it right. Their new 34 MM scope that came out maybe one or 2 years ago is a piece of sht also. So many complaints from customers about that thing. For hunting, I'll stick with my Kahles and Schmidt & Benders. My BR stuff, March's , NF, and Valdadas. Leups don't even come close to those things. I would rather quit shooting benchrest if I had to shoot with a Leupold on my rifle and that's the God's honest truth. I would have no confidence going to the line with a Leupold scope and if you don't have confidence in your equipment you might as well stay home.

 

[LHSmith]

In my time I must have owned at one time or other no less than 50 Leupolds. Exact number returned for service = 1. Last season I sent in an early manufacture LCS "M" suffix -just because I was told they had problems. Came back in two weeks with new internals and is working well. Just like everything manufactured, there will be a few with problems. March cost 2x as much, has a bigger hit on resale (25% vs. 15%), and has enough problems to warrant the dealer to set up a repair center in the US, and their warranty is only 5 years. I constantly check the line at shoots and equipment lists, and those that shot March one year, often are using/ listing another brand the next year.
If I have to buy a $2500 scope to gain enough confidence in my competitive ability.....then I will quit BR.

 

[dkhunt14]

I'd rather buy a Made in Japan March than an American made Leupold any day of the week. The only reason that their warranty is so good at Leupold is because the can't build them right in the first place.

I shoot 1000 yard BR and a scope must hold POA. If it doesn't you are in trouble. We use bigger chambering's and Muzzle brakes. Both are very hard on scopes. Over the last 15 Years I have seen a lot of Leupolds and Nightforces. I have saw a few Leupolds fail, not many though. I have seen exactly 3 March scopes and 2 of them failed. Not only that it cost them over a hundred to send back to get their warranty. Matt

 

[JimPag]

In my time I must have owned at one time or other no less than 50 Leupolds. Exact number returned for service = 1. Last season I sent in an early manufacture LCS "M" suffix -just because I was told they had problems. Came back in two weeks with new internals and is working well. Just like everything manufactured, there will be a few with problems. March cost 2x as much, has a bigger hit on resale (25% vs. 15%), and has enough problems to warrant the dealer to set up a repair center in the US, and their warranty is only 5 years. I constantly check the line at shoots and equipment lists, and those that shot March one year, often are using/ listing another brand the next year.
If I have to buy a $2500 scope to gain enough confidence in my competitive ability.....then I will quit BR.

That's not the reason Shiraz opened up a repair facility in the US. It was a little much to sent the scope all the way back to Japan for a minor repair. The repair facility in the US can't handle major repairs. Cost is not an issue as far as I'm concerned. I know it is for some people, but if I have to spend 2500.00 or more to make me feel confident in my scope I will spend it. I live in the farthest state in the Northeast and travel sometimes 1800 miles one way to go to a match. The way I feel if I had nothing but a Leupold to put on any of my rifles, I'd be riding one of my motorcycles all spring, summer and fall, and say the hell with shooting. Just the way I feel. Like I said before, if you don't have confidence in your equipment you might as well stay home.

 

[JimPag]

I shoot 1000 yard BR and a scope must hold POA. If it doesn't you are in trouble. We use bigger chambering's and Muzzle brakes. Both are very hard on scopes. Over the last 15 Years I have seen a lot of Leupolds and Nightforces. I have saw a few Leupolds fail, not many though. I have seen exactly 3 March scopes and 2 of them failed. Not only that it cost them over a hundred to send back to get their warranty. Matt

Let's face it, If it's man made it will fail at some point in it's life. I know 2 SR PA shooters who just got rid of their NF Comps because they wouldn't hold POI, so they both bought a March. I'm not saying that a NF is a worse scope than a March, I have both, but I've never heard anything but praise about a March scope holding POI.

 

[Buzz]

I agree with most of what you say, but I don't believe that foreign companies pay as much tax here as they would their own country. Their employees and infrastructure, etc, may be taxed the same as any other company based in the US, but the taxes from the profit are paid to the homeland. I never meant to imply that all the money they make by building and selling here is sent "home", but more is sent home than stays here.

Companies are taxed based on the revenue they generate from operations in the US. Corporate tax rates are astronomically high in the US compared to other countries, so that's where the motivation for the inversions comes from. Companies, both foreign and domestic, want to shift their actual income to low tax countries, which is yet another motivation to shift as much of their operations overseas. There's a reason US companies of have billions of dollars sitting offshore that they refuse to bring into the country.

My point is that purchasing anything made in the US, no matter where the company is headquartered, has basically the same affect on our economy. Going back to the auto makers, I would say Toyota and their supply chain model has made more of a positive impact on our economy than any of the US based auto makers have.

 

[Buzz]

I've owned at least 20 Leupold scope, probably 5 went back for repairs. They make a decent hunting scope, but to me the Competition scope had more than there share of problems. I've seen multiple Comps new and the early ones fail at matches. Numerous times they came back and they still didn't fix it right. Their new 34 MM scope that came out maybe one or 2 years ago is a piece of sht also. So many complaints from customers about that thing. For hunting, I'll stick with my Kahles and Schmidt & Benders. My BR stuff, March's , NF, and Valdadas. Leups don't even come close to those things. I would rather quit shooting benchrest if I had to shoot with a Leupold on my rifle and that's the God's honest truth. I would have no confidence going to the line with a Leupold scope and if you don't have confidence in your equipment you might as well stay home.

While I haven't had the amount of experience with the Leupold competition scopes as you have, I have noticed there seem to be an abundance of them for sale on this board lately... And they usually take a while to move.

 

[Cold Bore]

.... I have noticed there seem to be an abundance of them for sale on this board lately... And they usually take a while to move.

Shooters are a notoriously fickle bunch, and and usually take one of two paths.

They are either fiercely loyal, and never change loyalties, sometimes sticking themselves in a rut.

OR.... they jump loyalties weekly, always looking for the latest "in" thing, and wanting to keep up with the cool kids, trying to always have the latest thing in vogue.

Barrels and scopes usually dominate the obsessions of the second group.

 

[bobinpa]

Going back to the auto makers, I would say Toyota and their supply chain model has made more of a positive impact on our economy than any of the US based auto makers have.

I couldn't disagree more with this.......... When you look at cities like Detroit before and after the presence of foreign auto makers in this country, it's hard to understand your logic. I have friends that used to work at Fisher body and I don't think they would agree with you either.

 

[Cold Bore]

When you look at cities like Detroit before and after the presence of foreign auto makers in this country, it's hard to understand your logic.

Detroit and it's unions (along with their accompanying political leanings) were on an implosion course LONG before any "foreign" auto companies moved to the US.

They did it to themselves, with no outside help needed.

 

[bobinpa]

Detroit and it's unions (along with their accompanying political leanings) were on an implosion course LONG before any "foreign" auto companies moved to the US.

They did it to themselves, with no outside help needed.

I never said they needed help, but I also don't agree with the American public helping the foreign companies either....

 

[Cold Bore]

I never said they needed help, but I also don't agree with the American public helping the foreign companies either....

I can agree, but only to a point.

However, I simply will not blindly "Buy American", if they are putting out inferior products, at higher prices.

Detroit was definitely not putting out the higher quality autos, while still expecting us to pay a premium for them.

You need to meet at least one criteria; better quality to justify the higher price, or lower prices to compensate for lower quality. Detroit, and lots of other US companies, weren't paying attention to that, and set themselves up for failure.

It's that simple.

 

[Buzz]

I couldn't disagree more with this.......... When you look at cities like Detroit before and after the presence of foreign auto makers in this country, it's hard to understand your logic. I have friends that used to work at Fisher body and I don't think they would agree with you either.

http://hbswk.hbs.edu/archive/4791.html

Read the above article. It explains my logic perfectly.

Someone else touched on Detroit a few posts ago, but you can blame unions for that mess. I do not know how such a socialist idea is still thriving in the country's heartland. What's even more amazing is the amount of people who want to elect a guy to push the entire country even further in that direction.

I don't know what Fisher has to do with anything. They are controlled by GM and have operations in Mexico, India and China, so I really don't understand how that helps your point at all.

 

[cath8r]

Everybody loves a cheap t.v. set. The last North American made t.v. was built in the 90's if i remember right. Everybody loves dollar stores, disposable razors, cheap t-shirts.... until everybody quits they're love affair with buying too many cheap disposable products and always demanding the lowest price for everything, North America will continue to suffer. We are all at fault for this.

 

[Buzz]

Everybody loves a cheap t.v. set. The last North American made t.v. was built in the 90's if i remember right. Everybody loves dollar stores, disposable razors, cheap t-shirts.... until everybody quits they're love affair with buying too many cheap disposable products and always demanding the lowest price for everything, North America will continue to suffer. We are all at fault for this.

People instinctively make purchase decisions on the margin, meaning they analyze what value the difference price actually gives them. If there isn't a $2 increase in value between the $1 and $3 item, then people won't purchase the $3 item. Saying the problem with American production is that its consumers are not willing to pay more for less is a little silly.