Should buttstock toe ride bag or ears?

[Kyle Schultz]

Spec'ing out stock for new F-Open rifle. Question has arisen as to desired width of buttstock toe. 1/2" or 3/4"?

I believe conventional wisdom is that the toe ride the ears above the main bag. However, it seems to me that the rifle would be more stable if it was resting directly on the main body of the bag. In addition, the ears would be more effective in "steering" the recoil if more of their height was in contact with the buttstock.

So, as with many things, I'm having problems with conventional wisdom. What do y'all think?

 

[Kakumba]

I agree with your thoughts, but have no evidence or real science to support it.

 

[Terry]

Ride the bag.

 

[JamesnTN]

You want to ride the bag. In the ears you'll most likely get a lot of verticle in your groups.

 

[avidflyer]

Someone define ride the bag? I always embed the stock between the ears. Thought the ears were kinda there to suport the sides of the stock kinda like a guide? Some people ride the top of the ears?...just got in from the gym maybe just not thinking....stock firmly on the topside of the bag in between ears

 

[JamesnTN]

Someone define ride the bag? I always embed the stock between the ears. Thought the ears were kinda there to suport the sides of the stock kinda like a guide? Some people ride the top of the ears?...just got in from the gym maybe just not thinking....stock firmly on the topside of the bag in between ears

This meaning you want the stock in full contact of the top of the bag in between the ears. The ears are as a guide same as bag on the front rest. They also will support any torque twist that you also may get.

 

[JimPag]

Must be different in short range BR. I was always told that there should be a small space where u can just see daylight between the bottom of the stock and the top part of the bag between the ears.

 

[JamesnTN]

I can verify for a fact that at 600 yards you will get vertical in your groups. That happened to me last year in a match when I swapped rifles and forgot to swap out my rear bag from LG to HG.

 

[BenPerfected]

Seems to me that this is really just an matter of preference. I have one rear bag but three guns. One gun's stock is solid in the ears and another is solid but touching the bag. IMO, the goal is to get as close as possible to a perfect alignment between the target, front rest and rear bag. As someone said, if it can't be measured, it doesn't matter.

What process does every one use to get the best possible alignment of the bench equipment and the target?
Ben

 

[JamesnTN]

Seems to me that this is really just an matter of preference. I have one rear bag but three guns. One gun's stock is solid in the ears and another is solid but touching the bag. IMO, the goal is to get as close as possible to a perfect alignment between the target, front rest and rear bag. As someone said, if it can't be measured, it doesn't matter.

What process does every one use to get the best possible alignment of the bench equipment and the target?
Ben

Ben,

I made a template out of 48"x14"X 3/4" wood that I sit my front rest into and my rear bag in. Once I get the complete setup aligned to my target I remove a middle plate and now it becomes two pieces and is legal for IBS 600 yard matches.

 

[BenPerfected]

Ben,

I made a template out of 48"x14"X 3/4" wood that I sit my front rest into and my rear bag in. Once I get the complete setup aligned to my target I remove a middle plate and now it becomes two pieces and is legal for IBS 600 yard matches.

James, it would be great if you would post a picture or send me an email with a picture showing your setup on a bench.
Ben

 

[JamesnTN]

James, it would be great if you would post a picture or send me an email with a picture showing your setup on a bench.
Ben

Ben,

I'll be shooting (hopefully) Thursday morning. Once I get setup I'll take some photos of the setup and post them here.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

If your stock hits the hard stitches on recoil itll cause vertical. Ask any ppc shooter that can shoot the difference. May get lost in the noise on other guns

 

[johara1]

If your stock hits the hard stitches on recoil itll cause vertical. Ask any ppc shooter that can shoot the difference. May get lost in the noise on other guns

Dusty, that is short range, a flat bottom stock is different. ride on the corners on the bottom or you will have vertical and you also get vertical from a speed screw….. jim

 

[Dusty Stevens]

We use flat bottom stocks in short range too

 

[jsthntn247]

Last year I had a problem that after about 6-10 shots in a string I would start to get vertical and drop a couple shots high and low in the remainder of the string. I tried everything and just thought it was me doing something wrong and losing concentration. I even thought it could be stress in the barrel causing it to wander after it heated up. In the offseason I started looking at my rear bag and doing some testing. The ears on the bag are packed really tight and when setting up I would have to push my bag back and forth to get it to settle down to the top of the bag. After a few shots (very low recoiling caliber) the butt would start to squeeze up and no longer ride on the top of the bag and I would immediately start to get vertical. I had another bag that was a tad softer and had a wider spacing between the ears that allowed the butt to ride on top of the bag and not rise up after a few shots. I have not shot a full 22 shot string in a match to confirm, but testing shows it fixed the issue.

 

[JamesnTN]

We use flat bottom stocks in short range too

Dusty

Your stocks may have a flat bottom but the butt end has an angle in it. For long range the butt of our stocks are level and parallel with the for end on our stocks.

 

[lawrence97]

To the original poster.... You specified an Fclass stock but you have not said if you want a rounded bottom or flat! I have seen guys use both. I use a 3/4" flat on mine and I ride the bottom of the bag. I have seen others with a flat toe riding the ears of the bag and they shoot good but their technique behind the gun might be different.
For starters I would order a 3/4" flat to ride the flat of a bag with 5/8-3/4 spacing between the ears.

 

[butchlambert]

Dusty

Your stocks may have a flat bottom but the butt end has an angle in it. For long range the butt of our stocks are level and parallel with the for end on our stocks.

Typical shooters argument. I will continue doing mine as I have always done it.

 

[JimPag]

Typical shooters argument. I will continue doing mine as I have always done it.

Butch. That's why I put down it must be different for short range. I've never shot LR so I don't know squat about it.