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Tell me about your 223 FTR rifle

Funny you should say that. I have been waiting on a back-order since Feb15 here's what they said


John,


Thank you for getting with us here at Berger Bullets. Although our previous production schedule had us set to run these 22 caliber bullets in February, we have had to push production back to May. After a quick search I have found a dealer showing these bullets as in stock at Creedmoor Sports. I would suggest getting in contact with you to see if they can fill an order for you.


We greatly appreciate your patience as we understand that the long wait times are customers are incurring can be frustrating. We are working hard to get bullets produced and shipped as soon as possible and if you have any questions, please do not hesitate to get back with me.


Kind Regards,

Ryan Robertson

Marketing Specialist

ryan.robertson@bergerbullets.com

Creedmoor is out.
 
I found the same listing at Creedmoor a long time ago and called them immediately...they had none...it was a computer inventory issue, which they were supposedly going to correct. Apparently they have not yet done so. It's clear from several different shooting forums that the 90 VLDs have become increasingly in demand over the last year or so. I suspect that this is largely due to F-TR shooters "discovering" how well they can shoot these out of a .223. I also know of a couple F-Open shooters that have been pretty successful using the 90 VLDs. In any event, Berger will do another run sometime soon, and when they do, I would suggest buying more than enough to tide yourself over until the next run ;).

Correct, just waiting for my back-order to fill;)
 
This explains why the revised BC of the 90 SMK appeared to be closer to that of the 90 VLD. Per another post, I looked back at the specs of the 90 SMK and the [avg] bearing surface length is only a few thousandths shorter than the 90 VLD, meaning they would seat pretty close to optimal in the Rem ISSF 0.169" fb chamber. You'd still be giving up a slight bit of BC relative to a pointed 90 VLD, but at least the 90 SMKs are currently in stock at a number of different suppliers. A higher BC bullet doesn't mean much if you don't have any to actually load in your rifle :D.
So true Greg, I bought 500 to test at local matches and save the VLDs for the Big matches. I will post my findings on how well these bullets do.

You coming to AZ for the SWBN?
 
I'll join the fun. Mine is a Savage 12 Precision Target Action (off a 22-250 LRPV) with a 30" Bartlein 4-grove 1:7 twist cut with the ISSF reamer (0.169 FB) in a Eliseo S1 stock wearing a NF 15-55 Comp in Burris Sig Zee rings. I use a SEB joypod. Have shot about 2000 90VLDs, 1000 90LRBT and 400 80VLDs. I use Lapua brass, 450 primer, 24.8 gr varget and 0.007" into the lands to get 2835fps. Brass lasts at least 6 firings, but will not last 10. I've been shooting the 90vld at 100-1000yds for about 1.5 years.

223lrpveliseo.jpg


I have 100s of targets from testing 3 barrels. I feel like I could write a book. It would be boring to most. I know that there have been people who preceded me(us) in this endeavor who have invaluable writeups on this topic if you use your google-fu. Users Laurie and gstaylorg are very knowledgeable and are willing to share, my advice is to listen to them.

Some targets
300yds
90vld-300moa-jpg.966114


Firing forming and load testing at a 300m match

90vld-300m.jpg

A 600 yds match in ND wind. Would have been happier if I took a few clicks off elevation and moved group to the right...

90vld-600-match-jpg.966116


at 1000 yds. This one is tricky to describe. During 2015 FCN, there was time for 1000 yd practice. Two shooters per target, then pit change. I shot first. My first shot was the high, leftmost shot. 2nd shot also high. Took some elevation off of scope and shot the two low shots. Added a few clicks. Then took 11 more shots. Shot mostly Xs and 10s but there was at least one 9. Next shooter shot on same target, 10-12 shots with his 284. The following is the combined target. So the vertical for my 90vld at 1000 at Ben Avery during practice is no worse than plotted. That works for me.

90vld-1000-BA-.jpg

Some personal highlights with the 223/90 combination (in FTR)

2015 3rd place Team, US Nationals-Midrange
2014 and 2015 ND State Champion Midrange
2015 1st Place Midrange Regional
2014 2nd place MN State Champion - Team
2015 1st Place Team Regional (MN)
Made High Master at Midrange
Broke all five North Dakota Midrange State Records this year

The 223/90 combo can compete, IMHO.

Happy to share if you ask.

Drew

eliseozoom-USFCN.jpg
 
Last edited:
I'll join the fun. Mine is a Savage 12 Precision Target Action (off a 22-250 LRPV) with a 30" Bartlein 4-grove 1:7 twist cut with the ISSF reamer (0.169 FB) in a Eliseo S1 stock wearing a NF 15-55 Comp in Burris Sig Zee rings. I use a SEB joypod. Have shot about 2000 90VLDs, 1000 90LRBT and 400 80VLDs. I use Lapua brass, 450 primer, 24.8 gr varget and 0.007" into the lands to get 2835fps. Brass lasts at least 6 firings, but will not last 10. I've been shooting the 90vld at 100-1000yds for about 1.5 years.

223lrpveliseo.jpg


I have 100s of targets from testing 3 barrels. I feel like I could write a book. It would be boring to most. I know that there have been people who preceded me(us) in endeavor who have invaluable writeups on this topic if you use your google-fu. Users Laurie and gstaylorg are very knowledgeable and are willing to share, my advice is to listen to them.

Some targets
300yds
90vld-300moa-jpg.966114


Firing forming and load testing at a 300m match

View attachment 973615

A 600 yds match in ND wind. Would have been happier if I took a few clicks off and moved group to the right...

90vld-600-match-jpg.966116


at 1000 yds. This one is tricky to describe. During 2015 FCN, there was time for 1000 yd practice. Two shooters per target, then pit change. I shot first. My first shot was the high, leftmost shot. 2nd shot also high. Took some elevation off of scope and shot the two low shots. Added a few clicks. Then took 11 more shots. Shot mostly Xs and 10s but there was at least one 9. Next shooter shot on same target, 10-12 shots with his 284. The following is the combined target. So the vertical for my 90vld at 1000 at Ben Avery during practice is no worse than plotted. That works for me.

View attachment 973616

Some personal highlights with the 223/90 combination (in FTR)

2015 3rd place Team, US Nationals-Midrange
2014 and 2015 ND State Champion Midrange
2015 1st Place Midrange Regional
2014 2nd place MN State Champion - Team
2015 1st Place Team Regional (MN)
Made High Master at Midrange
Broke all five North Dakota Midrange State Records this year

The 223/90 combo can compete, IMHO.

Happy to share if you ask.

Drew

eliseozoom-USFCN.jpg


Drew , that's awesome rig and great job on your accomplishments. Its good to see I pick the right path with my .223 build. Its so much fun and too see others doing the same thing. I still have a long road a head but im excited to see others share about the .223 mighty mouse builds.

I see you you have shot at Ben Avery are you local. If so i would love to see your setup. Will you be at the SWBN?

John
 
Drew , that's awesome rig and great job on your accomplishments. Its good to see I pick the right path with my .223 build. Its so much fun and too see others doing the same thing. I still have a long road a head but im excited to see others share about the .223 mighty mouse builds.

I see you you have shot at Ben Avery are you local. If so i would love to see your setup. Will you be at the SWBN?

John

John,

Thanks, I get lucky sometimes..

Actually live in North Dakota and currently freezing my trigger finger off. Would LOVE to make the BSWN this year, but wife was agreeable to let me go in Oct. so I don't dare push my luck. I will return to BA in the future though. The people I met there were unbelievably kind and inviting. Can't wait. Maybe we can cross paths then.

You also have a nice looking rig and your targets look very good. The 500 yd one is awesome. I see Scott smithed your rifle. He and I shared a mound during one day of the FCN midrange (I was shooting this rifle using Berger 90LRBT at the time). Great guy. He also gives excellent advice.

Drew
 
Drew,
The book would not be boring to me...start writing ;). Very nice writeup on your setup and results. If anyone reading this thread needs further evidence to convince them the .223 shooting heavies in F-TR can be competitive, I can't imagine what it could be. To be sure I'm not adverse to the "competitive" part, but for me it's mostly about the "fun" of shooting a .223 in F-TR. If you're thinking about having one built or setting one up to shoot F-TR, do it...you won't be sorry.

Maybe if we wrote it together. :D And yes, everyone, the 223/90 is a joy to shoot.
 
John,

Thanks, I get lucky sometimes..

Actually live in North Dakota and currently freezing my trigger finger off. Would LOVE to make the BSWN this year, but wife was agreeable to let me go in Oct. so I don't dare push my luck. I will return to BA in the future though. The people I met there were unbelievably kind and inviting. Can't wait. Maybe we can cross paths then.

You also have a nice looking rig and your targets look very good. The 500 yd one is awesome. I see Scott smithed your rifle. He and I shared a mound during one day of the FCN midrange (I was shooting this rifle using Berger 90LRBT at the time). Great guy. He also gives excellent advice.

Drew
Drew,
I hope that you make it out, Please look me up before you come, I will be sure to come out and meet you.Thank you for the complement on my 500 yard i was very pleased with this target it was my first clean ever. This gun from the get go shot awesome with almost no effort in load testing. Scott is one great guy and all is family shoots lights out. Its a good thing we all shoot with each other he's been training me on wind calls the last few months.

Hope to cross paths
John
 
Drew,
I hope that you make it out, Please look me up before you come, I will be sure to come out and meet you.Thank you for the complement on my 500 yard i was very pleased with this target it was my first clean ever. This gun from the get go shot awesome with almost no effort in load testing. Scott is one great guy and all is family shoots lights out. Its a good thing we all shoot with each other he's been training me on wind calls the last few months.

Hope to cross paths
John

I'm jealous that you get wind training from someone at all, much less of his caliber. Tell him and his family "Hi" when you see him. Have fun at BSWN. If I had a target that looked like yours at 500, I'd probably have a t-shirt made to wear at matches...

A few people I know from up this way (ND, MN, WI) will be descending on you in a few weeks and will be very happy to be in shorts.....Drew

Here's another "fun" highlight courtesy of the 223R/90VLD. If you click on the title, there is a narrative. Cool feature of the new format that video is embedded I guess.

 
I'm jealous that you get wind training from someone at all, much less of his caliber. Tell him and his family "Hi" when you see him. Have fun at BSWN. If I had a target that looked like yours at 500, I'd probably have a t-shirt made to wear at matches...

A few people I know from up this way (ND, MN, WI) will be descending on you in a few weeks and will be very happy to be in shorts.....Drew

Here's another "fun" highlight courtesy of the 223R/90VLD. If you click on the title, there is a narrative. Cool feature of the new format that video is embedded I guess.

Skiuth02
Ya Wind training has been great especially from Scott. The cool thing is he has been doing classes for our Upcoming match next month. I will say that it never fails early morning first string 3-5 mph winds than 11:30 hits and all hell breaks loose. I will definitely tell him and his family you say hi. I see him quote often. Cant wait to see your fellow shooters weather is great!!!
 
I'm planning on taking a different approach with mine this year. After burning a barrel out in 1700 rounds and short brass life all the way through. I'm planning on running a mild 2650fps load with slower burning powder in the new barrel. Shot a few matches with it late in 2015 and had my highest scores I've ever shot even with a barrel that was collecting copper badly.
 
Wow, what powder? It doesn't sound like most other folks are getting a round count that low. What have the rest of you been seeing for barrel life?
 
I went from upper 20's to low 30's X count each match to barely being able to get 20. Also would get a wild 8 every now and then. Scoped after last match and had 6" of yellow brick road down the barrel.
 
Are the sierra 90gr matchkings any good? And what is a good primer to use with Varget or 4895? Do the wolf primers work well with this combo?
 

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