Annealing for $15?

[Chawkxslayer]

I am relatively new to loading. Does anyone know what would cause the neck to turn red after annealing and cleaning. Did they overheat or where they under annealed?

 

[Endyo]

I am relatively new to loading. Does anyone know what would cause the neck to turn red after annealing and cleaning. Did they overheat or where they under annealed?

You should see some tarnishing. Red likely means you've over annealed. Take a pair of pliers to it. If it crushes easily than it's too malleable meaning you've over annealed.

You should get some tempilaq 700deg or 750deg. I wouldn't guess with annealing.

 

[Chawkxslayer]

You should see some tarnishing. Red likely means you've over annealed. Take a pair of pliers to it. If it crushes easily than it's too malleable meaning you've over annealed.

You should get some tempilaq 700deg or 750deg. I wouldn't guess with annealing.

Thanks I will do that. I am doing them in the dark for 7 seconds on 308 caliber. I was told to anneal them in the dark to see when the neck glowed (until the neck turned red).

 

[dkhunt14]

There is a difference between starting to turn orange and glowing red. Matt

 

[Lapua40X]

I am relatively new to loading. Does anyone know what would cause the neck to turn red after annealing and cleaning. Did they overheat or where they under annealed?

Might have been better to open a new thread on your issue. Hijacking this one makes it difficult to sort the central point in each discussion.
That said - most authorities that I've resourced on annealing agree that a temperature of about 700 degrees or just slightly higher is sufficient for annealing brass.
Here's a chart and a video that may help you better understand the annealing process.

http://www.nancylthamilton.com/wp-c...-Metals-Annealing-Temperatures-for-Metals.pdf

 

[gotcha]

Gotcha,

I'm assuming you've used an Anneal-Rite? Couldn't you get a metronome after you figured out your burn rate and go by time?

Yep, I have a Metronome and set it for 120 beats per minute. I use it now with the Annealeez to lock-in dwell time for each type case. Once the flame cone length is set ( same setting for all cases) Its just a matter of adjusting dwell for the perfect anneal. Easy peasy

 

[Brians356]

I'm not a fan of the drill method.

I'm curious - what do you dislike about spinning the case, with a drill or equivalent?

 

[Endyo]

I'm all about spinning the case if possible. I just imagine it would hard to be consistent using the drill method since it's done free handed. I think you can get about the same distance from the flame most of the time, and probably within 1 second dwell time.

As either of those variables change it would effect the other. So each case won't be consistently annealed.

I honestly think the anneal rite method shares a similar weakness with dwell time.

To quote Mozella earlier in this thread:
"The only scientific paper on the subject of case annealing has shown that the drill/torch method produces inconsistent results and the author concludes that not annealing is better than inconsistent annealing."

 

[Brians356]

I'm all about spinning the case if possible. I just imagine it would hard to be consistent using the drill method since it's done free handed. I think you can get about the same distance from the flame most of the time, and probably within 1 second dwell time.

As either of those variables change it would effect the other. So each case won't be consistently annealed.

Your response indicates you feel spinning the case with a drill or screwdriver necessarily means holding the drill freehand, allowing it to move around a lot (even if the torch is sitting and stable) and making controlling the distance from the flame difficult and unrepeatable. I sit the screwdriver in the crotch of a stiff bunny ear rear shooting bag to steady it and make positioning plenty repeatable enough, then slide the torch (sitting upright on its base) into position. A change in position of 1/32" or so is not going to make a difference when the case is being heated relatively slowly.

If you are using a very hot flame, and a correspondingly short exposure time on the order of 3-5 seconds, that will indeed require more precisely-controlled juxtaposition of the case and flame, and stricter exposure time control. The answer to that is to use a cooler flame (e.g. butane) and expose the case several times longer (for example, 223 for 10-12 seconds, a 6mm Rem 15-17 seconds). Obviously the trade-off being it takes longer to anneal a batch of cases. However, all the equipment required to do it my way (assuming you have the shooting bag) is less than $30.

 

[Endyo]

I believe you have a good system. I don't think that using a drill can't work, but I think there may be better methods. A hard stop like a shooting bag is a great technique. It will help you get more consistent placement and reduce fatigue which is another factor I considered. While holding a drill isn't strenuous, holding it into a flame while counting and trying to be in the exact same spot is tedious and would be mentally tiring for me at least.

The anneal rite system seems easier to me and costs about the same as the drill method assuming you have a rest and drill already.

I'd prefer a automated set up that spins and indexes the cases but that will have to be another time unless I can find a deal.

 

[Brians356]

The anneal rite system seems easier to me and costs about the same as the drill method assuming you have a rest and drill already.

The entry-level Anneal-Rite II costs $98, and at today's price my butane torch costs $36 delivered, so let's call the difference about $60, or about 40% cheaper. But I'll concede you're in the same ballpark, considering the Annealeez starts at $275 plus shipping. If I were to "upgrade" from my off-the-shelf do-it-yourself setup, it would be for sheer volume so I'd probably skip over the Anneal-Rite and spring for the Annealeez, as (assuming it's trouble free) it seems like a lot of value for the money.

 

[spclark]

The only scientific paper on the subject of case annealing has shown that the drill/torch method produces inconsistent results and the author concludes that not annealing is better than inconsistent annealing.

I'd take exception to that conclusion, evidenced by my experience with cases annealed by my drill'n'torch protocol (done with care to be as consistent as I believe possible) vs cases not annealed after repeated use.

Maybe the key word here is inconsistent. Like I said I strive to set torch flame size the same for each session, regulate timing by metronome, drill speed is fixed by variable power supply to my Milwaukee 1/2 drill, case to flame distance gauged by eyeball.

It's worked fine for me for several years now though I admit I have plans to build one of the DIY devices described elsewhere here, to Skip's design. Parts sourced from eBay via China have arrived, I'll be starting fabrication over the weekend when it's too darn cold here to do much of anything outside.

 

[Endyo]

I'd take exception to that conclusion, evidenced by my experience with cases annealed by my drill'n'torch protocol (done with care to be as consistent as I believe possible) vs cases not annealed after repeated use.

Maybe the key word here is inconsistent. Like I said I strive to set torch flame size the same for each session, regulate timing by metronome, drill speed is fixed by variable power supply to my Milwaukee 1/2 drill, case to flame distance gauged by eyeball.

It's worked fine for me for several years now though I admit I have plans to build one of the DIY devices described elsewhere here, to Skip's design. Parts sourced from eBay via China have arrived, I'll be starting fabrication over the weekend when it's too darn cold here to do much of anything outside.

If you start a new thread on the matter I'd be more than happy to follow. By the firm persuasion of Mozella and eric32 I am going to try my hand at the Skip annealer.

I am pricing out all the parts. I'm a little stumped on which power supply to get:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/18128410967...49&var=480306974550&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

There are 4 listed. Which did you decide on spclark?