Would you like to see smaller f open targets?

Discussion in 'Competition Forum (All Calibers)' started by Falfan2017, Aug 3, 2018.

  1. Bindi2

    Bindi2

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    Don't put a delay in the E T system. It causes problems when there are crossfires.
     
  2. MattPeetz

    MattPeetz Silver $$ Contributor

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    Go sh
    Go shoot benchrest then. There needs to be a delay. 10seconds minimum. 7 isn’t long enough.
    No delay and the average shot is 4-5 seconds, that is not f class. Only trigger pulling which is benchrest. Nobody get their panties in wad from that statement but it’s fact.
     
  3. SPJ

    SPJ Gold $$ Contributor

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    Yeah man come over to benchrest"
    Relax have a good time, nobody messin witch ya;)
    J
     
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  4. Puzzaz01

    Puzzaz01 Gold $$ Contributor

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    Everybody talks like BR is a walk in the park. It's not all that easy, when we're shooting for record there are no spotters, you're on you're own! And people keep saying .... oh just run all your shots off real quick, I don't know where they're shooting but we have this thing called wind which is constantly changing. On a normal day ( on the MS Gulf Coast) the flags look like they're in a blender, very seldom you'll have a couple of flags flying I n the same direction.

    Darrin
     
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  5. Keith Glasscock

    Keith Glasscock True believer - Straight 284 Gold $$ Contributor

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    I understand your point, but you'll have to forgive some of the previous posters for their modesty. Several members of the "600 club" have posted here...

    It just depends on where one shoots. Around here (Western Washington State), we have a regular fact that the 3rd and sometimes 4th place guy shot a 600 (or 800 for 80 shot days) at all mid ranges (including 600 yards). It isn't calm winds, it's the readability.
     
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  6. JeffT

    JeffT Silver $$ Contributor

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    That's fine for people with all their parts........ what about the ones that don't? If it wasn't for fclass I couldn't shoot in these competitions
     
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  7. Dgd6mm

    Dgd6mm

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    I've never shot a 600, an do not want the target changed.
     
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  8. damoncali

    damoncali Bullet Maker Site $$ Sponsor

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    First, Benchrest is hard. Different, but hard. If you take away any delay, you take a huge step towards it not being that different, and not being as hard (no spotters in benchrest).

    I don't think anyone is complaining about the target, but just asking "is it good enough". I also don't think anyone has suggested that shooting a 600 under any conditions is easy. We're just pointing out that if you get a bunch of very good Open shooters on the same calm firing line, we are getting to a point where the scores bunch up with a lot of guys shooting cleans. So much that the target needs changing? Not yet. But I could see a time in the future that they might. Every year more guys show up with rifles specifically built for F Class, and the scores keep getting better.
     
  9. Jetjock1

    Jetjock1

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    Scott
    That's a great idea.
    Jetjock
     
  10. Lbart

    Lbart Gold $$ Contributor

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    JetJock, As I am sure you are aware that option is already available. It's called Fullbore and the USA NRA even has a rule book for it. http://rulebooks.nra.org/documents/pdf/compete/RuleBooks/Fullbore/fb-book.pdf

    FC took off when introduced to the USA in late 1990's. Shooters here prefer string fire. Let's not rock the boat, it is still growing with no end in sight! Fullbore has not grown much if at all. Leave it alone. Even the Australian's have their version of string fire.
     
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  11. davidjoe

    davidjoe Skunkworks Gold $$ Contributor

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    Reducing all “ring sizes” is essentially the same as making the current X ring count a point higher, descending outward, at least if the reduction was by 1/2.

    Shooters that presently can shoot a lot of X’s would soar in score above those shooting a lot of safe tens.

    The centers wouldn’t become more shot out, because accuracy and shot dispersion can’t jump, ... but there would still need to be a new X ring.

    I think when so many National fclass records require more than twenty shots to “drop” to a “10” the X is too big, which means the 10 (full score value ring) is also too big.

    It seems intuitive that the tie-breaking purpose of X’s means they ought to be fairly rarely shot, like a 1/10 MOA X-ring across the board would get you.

    I think the question would be, “are clean scores where they were when the last reduction was deemed appropriate circa 2007?” I have no idea but some guys might remember.
     
  12. kzin

    kzin

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    Just ordered an f-open rifle yesterday 'cause i heard it's so easy.

    Hold up on changing the target 'til I get my 600!
     
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  13. swd

    swd Gold $$ Contributor

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    The best long range Benchrest rifles barely achieve 1/10 MOA on a good day. Making the X ring that size would leave more luck involved in tie breaking than skill, which is the wrong way to go.

    The big problem here is ranges that calmer or more readable verses ranges that are very difficult. I don't know of a fair solution.
    The 2 ranges I regularly shoot we don't need smaller targets. We do shoot 600's on good days but multiple 600's over weeks/months don't happen.

    As mentioned in an earlier response as long as a winner can be determined by X count it seems this is solution looking for a problem.
     
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  14. davidjoe

    davidjoe Skunkworks Gold $$ Contributor

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    EE6C901E-C2FF-4C60-B386-E850C75BB5F3.png

    The current target size is plenty challenging for me, don’t get me wrong, I’m faaaaar from bored with it, personally.

    Interestingly though, the targets were “halved” in 2006, but at the 2004 nationals, the scores - presumably shot on the “big” targets, were pretty uniformly lower than what we see today shot on the “small” targets, and yet they still decided to shrink them. Just saying.
     
  15. Cochran

    Cochran

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    Haha. That’s not the missing parts he’s talking about. People with certain physical limitations can’t shoot Palma. F-class opened the door to many who would otherwise not be able to participate
     
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  16. JeffT

    JeffT Silver $$ Contributor

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    I'm not the sharpest tack in the box, but if you make the scoring rings smaller, and th
    We used 300 yards across the course target I believe for that match. It was close to half moa but not exact
     
  17. kohai133

    kohai133

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    Yeah... I stepped in that one. No disrespect was meant there and I have since been educated. F-Class is fun and does keep/attract people to the game that wouldn't otherwise get into it.
     
  18. Ringostar

    Ringostar

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    If you look at the scores, there are a lot of cleans. This was 15 shot strings with an extra point added for each X. Top shooter match 4 is 150-6x for a 156 score, match 5 is a 150-7x for a 157 score.
     
  19. Dos XX

    Dos XX Bystanders Should Also Wear Safety Goggles Gold $$ Contributor

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    At 600 yards, if you decreased the size of both the x ring and the 10 ring by 1/2 moa, instead of the x ring getting shot out, both the x ring and the 10 ring would get shot out. The people shooting sub 3" groups are still going to shoot sub 3" groups. The same number of holes are going to be in the same 3" circle. It is just going to wipe out 2 rings.

    There is nothing wrong with deciding matches by x count. I don't even understand the argument.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2018
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  20. Puzzaz01

    Puzzaz01 Gold $$ Contributor

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    Exactly .... I tried saying that but your comment sounds better!
     
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