Wind: Holding off vertically

Discussion in 'Competition Forum (All Calibers)' started by brians356, Jan 21, 2020.

  1. rardoin

    rardoin Silver $$ Contributor

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    Me too...but sometimes even a blind hog finds an acorn or two:D.
     
  2. Bamban

    Bamban Silver $$ Contributor

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    In this case, which vertical direction did POI go when sun peeked through the trees?

    Back in the iron sight days of service rifle shooting, the old saying, "light up, sights up, light down, sights down" applied to most shooters, but not all. I wonder if the same directional change applies to optical sights.
     
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  3. rardoin

    rardoin Silver $$ Contributor

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    Bamban, at this range in the late afternoon in November the sun is blocked by tall pines on the South edge of the range. About 4:15-4:30 the sun pierces through a gap in the canopy and comes straight down the barrel of the scope for about 5-8 minutes then is blocked by the canopy after that. My shooter was shooting x's and inner 10's and I was making 1/2 to 1 ring of hold off calls (no vertical adjustments needed in the very light winds) and a shot hits in the mid to upper nine ring (high). Sun gets brighter and I have him dial out .5 minutes of elevation hedging my bet between a flier and something 'out there'. Next shot was either high 10 or inner 9...don't recall. Dial down another .5 minutes...sun disappears...next shot is 1 minute low in the inner 9 ring:confused::confused::confused:. This was before I even considered that that blinding sun was an issue so I assumed the NF scope had taken a dump. Shooter's dad offered his rifle the next day but suggested that the sun was the issue because he and his teammate saw that trainwreck coming and held fire until the range was 'dark' again and did not drop a point. My shooter wisely listened to his pop, kept shooting the same rifle the next day, and shot clean the remainder of the match. I really learned a lesson on just how dramatically the sunlight/absence of affects apparent target image. To make a short story long;)..... the bright light coming down the bore of the scope made the shot impact high.
     
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  4. Bamban

    Bamban Silver $$ Contributor

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    Thank you for the detailed response. I will shoot there in April, will keep an eye for the condition you just described
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2020
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  5. Shooter13

    Shooter13 Gold $$ Contributor

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    Now when have you seen "dead calm"? LOL I saw it once when I was on the inside of a coffin looking at a future purchase ;-) :eek::oops::rolleyes:
     
  6. Shooter13

    Shooter13 Gold $$ Contributor

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    LOL or in my case 8-10 and then maybe shoot my target!
     
  7. gunsandgunsmithing

    gunsandgunsmithing The best tuners and wind flags on the market Gold $$ Contributor

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    I didn't say it was calm. I probably had a few minutes clicked in...both ways! Lol! ;)
    We don't have many days around here that the wind isn't blowing at least 3 directions! Those guys and gals have it made..when all the flags are one color and they just sit back and pull a trigger, whenever! :D

    ps..and Fox does have a good point about watching for changes in lighting conditions. It can ruin your day.
     
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  8. brians356

    brians356 Gold $$ Contributor

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    That 3-stage wind force depiction adds information, and suggests that the 4:00 wind has more effect than from any other direction (right-twist barrel.)
    -
     
  9. gunsandgunsmithing

    gunsandgunsmithing The best tuners and wind flags on the market Gold $$ Contributor

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    I'm not sure what you mean by 3 stages but I am sure that you have to be able to shoot what's in front of you better than you shoot those charts. They are only a rough guide.
     
  10. SPJ

    SPJ Whoops !! Gold $$ Contributor

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    Mike
    I’m not sure what an aspiring/learning shooter is supposed to do besides use the charts for a starting point we get that .
    I always get my butt kicked by multiple winds coming off berms or walls and I try to keep at it.
    I’ll admit it I’m terrible
     
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  11. gunsandgunsmithing

    gunsandgunsmithing The best tuners and wind flags on the market Gold $$ Contributor

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    We all do! But charts don't account for walls and berms. And yes, the charts do have value, so don't completely disregard them...unless the sighter and/or target tell you to. The paper doesn't lie. The rest...well. This is just an area where there are no shortcuts and no definitive answers. We all do the best that we can at times and that's all we can do. Walls, berms and wind going every which way, are what tests us all. When in doubt, go to the sighter. If you can't...Good luck! Lol! Just pick the condition you hope gives what you're after. Maybe I should've just said.."I don't know!" But there are times, nobody knows! Ya just do what hopefully works best.
     
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  12. SPJ

    SPJ Whoops !! Gold $$ Contributor

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    I do shoot sighters I trust the paper and I adjust , I look for a condition I can handle within the time it takes me to run my rounds.
    That’s all I can do.
    I’m sure there’s lots of experts out there but I’m not one.
    Thanks for listening Mike you’re one of good guys in my book.
    J
     
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  13. glockaholic

    glockaholic

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    There seams to be a difference between CubCouper's bullet locations and Brians356's. Look at the diagrams for 1 o'clock wind and 2 o'clock wind.... that's the lower left orange flags on CubCouper's.
    Which one is correct? ....very nice diagrams.....
     
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  14. gunsandgunsmithing

    gunsandgunsmithing The best tuners and wind flags on the market Gold $$ Contributor

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    Same here, my friend! Sometimes ya just have to go with what ya think, feel or guess. If it's your day, you'll guess right. If not...ya won't... and you'll make somebody else happy! Lol!
     
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  15. gunsandgunsmithing

    gunsandgunsmithing The best tuners and wind flags on the market Gold $$ Contributor

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    None of them! I do see what you're saying, after a second glance. A wind from the right will pull you up and left. A wind from the left will pull yo down and right. Notice I said "pul". A bullet is pulled, not pushed, due to drag.
     
  16. gunsandgunsmithing

    gunsandgunsmithing The best tuners and wind flags on the market Gold $$ Contributor

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    Anybody else been having a little window pop up at the top right of the screen that looks like the site is thinking about letting you edit, like or post? It's driving me nuts! Sometimes I have to wait for it to let me edit or even like a post. :mad:
     
  17. Lone Hunter

    Lone Hunter Silver $$ Contributor

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    Turn cub coopers graph around. Notice where the headwind and tailwind are on the graphs and they pretty much match up. Looks like a clock.
     
  18. brians356

    brians356 Gold $$ Contributor

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    Did you inspect the chart I commented about? Compare closely to the several previous similar (but minus the colorful wind flags) charts. Notice each "target" shows a single "bullet hole", but the most recent one shows 3 holes depicting progressive wind velocity effect.

    Some of you want to dismiss these graphics as next to useless in the real world of wind doping. But you are perhaps looking beyond their utility for explaining the basic effects of a hypothetical uniform wind direction and force on the bullet POI for folks (such as myself) who are unschooled in these concepts. A little indulgence would be appreciated. If you spot any errors in materials presented here, fire away!
    -
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2020
  19. gunsandgunsmithing

    gunsandgunsmithing The best tuners and wind flags on the market Gold $$ Contributor

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    I stand by my previous posts.
     
  20. brians356

    brians356 Gold $$ Contributor

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    Oh.

    stage n. A point, period, or step in a process or development; phase; level
    -
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2020

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