Use of Labradar during F-Class match?

Discussion in 'Competition Forum (All Calibers)' started by Nowhere Man, Dec 3, 2019.

  1. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man

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    Has the NRA made a definitive decision on the use of a Labradar during a match?
     
  2. Falfan2017

    Falfan2017

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    I’ve been told you can’t do it.
     
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  3. Ned Ludd

    Ned Ludd Gold $$ Contributor

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    As far as I know, it is not allowed:

    3.22 Electronic Devices—Electronic devices such as radios, tape recorders, or any other type of sound production, or communication systems are prohibited forward of the ready line, including the pits, except those necessary for range control.

    (a) During team matches only; team members may communicate with each other via hard-wired communications devices. These communication devices must not transmit over a radio frequency, and must not interfere with safety, range operations were other competitors.

    Although the ruling is somewhat nebulous and does not specify a LabRadar among the banned electronic devices, it has been considered to be a "no go" per this rule by match directors at various regional matches I have attended. However, until/unless the NRA specifically addresses the use of a chronograph (i.e. LabRadar or other), I suspect there will be a few that may choose to dispute the ruling. I personally would include the LabRadar in the above ruling as an "electronic device", although it is not a radio, tape recorder, sound production, or communications system, as I think the intent of the rule is simply to keep all electronic devices off the firing line.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019
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  4. ngb1787

    ngb1787 Silver $$ Contributor

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    Not allowed, sorry,
     
  5. rardoin

    rardoin Silver $$ Contributor

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    If it is a local match and you don't care if your score is submitted to the NRA then your MD may allow it with that exception.
     
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  6. Mike McCasland

    Mike McCasland Gold $$ Contributor

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    Space/Room/Time concerns aside, it makes me wonder why that's the case. E-targets are giving you velocity numbers (that are somewhat accurate) at the target; I don't understand what advantage would be gained by getting them at the muzzle too.

    I'm probably not smart enough to realize the advantage though...

    Edit: No intention of protesting, or making an issue of it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019
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  7. ShootDots

    ShootDots Gold $$ Contributor

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    I don't see why you can't use one. There is no "speaker / receiver" for communication. It is NOT a radio, "walkie-talkie" or other communication device, It does NOT make noise to cause interference with anyone shooting. I see nothing in the rules prohibiting it. All it does is tell you what speed you are at the muzzle! E-Targets tell you what speed you are at the target. I fail to see the "rules" prohibiting the e-targets! I think someone would be hard pressed to show you that it is a "device" for communication. Now if the match director doesn't allow it, so be it>>>>but if he / she does not allow it because he / she believes it is a "rule violation", I think they would lose that argument.
     
  8. Falfan2017

    Falfan2017

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    I could see how it could be more for efficient matches. Less stuff having to be moved between relays
     
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  9. ngb1787

    ngb1787 Silver $$ Contributor

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    Ben, i believe it is an unfair advantage. If u drop a shot low you will immediately know if it is velocity or condition.
     
  10. ShootDots

    ShootDots Gold $$ Contributor

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    Oh I understand Nick.. But would that same scenario not also apply to the E-targets? Even though, it would have to be a "Match Director" decision based on "I don't want to use them". If you used the concept of "getting an advantage", where is that in the rules? I believe that using my .300WSM (qualifier: If I could shoot) is a definite advantage..
     
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  11. rardoin

    rardoin Silver $$ Contributor

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    But...the terminal velocity data from the target has been influenced by wind conditions where the LR gives Vmuzzle which is independent of such.
     
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  12. ngb1787

    ngb1787 Silver $$ Contributor

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    I guess thats why we are not the governing body, lol
     
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  13. pat fulghum

    pat fulghum ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Gold $$ Contributor

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    @Ned Ludd, quoted the old rule book...

    2018 rule book is here....
    https://rulebooks.nra.org/documents/pdf/compete/RuleBooks/HPR/hpr-book.pdf


    Here is the exact wording..


    3.22 Electronic Devices—Competitors are responsible to ensure that all electronic communications and audio devices in their possession forward of the ready line are silenced and communication disabled.

    (a) During team matches only, team members may communicate with each other via communications devices. These communication devices must only be capable of communicating with other team members, and must not interfere with safety, range operations, or other competitors.

    (b) Radars, chronographs and other devices designed to measure bullet velocity are prohibited on the line.

    (c) Cell phones that have been rendered incapable from communicating (“airplane mode”) are permitted on the line and in the pits.
    NOTE: Communications between the line and the pit during team matches is forbidden.




    ----

    So 3.22.B specifically prohibits labradar.


    Note that wireless communication is allowed.
     
  14. jkl

    jkl Silver $$ Contributor

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    Try watching the conditions not the Labradar.

    John
     
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  15. ShootDots

    ShootDots Gold $$ Contributor

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    You are correct my friend! The ONLY time I use the Lab is during load development.. I have enough junk to carry to the line! LOL!!!
     
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  16. ngb1787

    ngb1787 Silver $$ Contributor

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    Really? Do you mean the flags and mirage will help, lol
     
  17. rardoin

    rardoin Silver $$ Contributor

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    It is interesting to shoot a F-class clean with high X count at 600yds and look at the corresponding Labradar data. Having done this has certainly lessened my worries about having incredibly low sd's;).
     
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  18. Scott Harris

    Scott Harris Silver $$ Contributor

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    ^^^^This^^^^
    To be compliant, e-targets should also have chrono functionality disabled...."match mode."
     
  19. Devin Wiggett

    Devin Wiggett

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    As cozy as shooters are on the line at alot of matches chances are the chrono will pick up more than just your shots, or what if it blocks the view of a flag by a fellow competitor, would that be fair. Leave it at home!
     
  20. ED3

    ED3 Gold $$ Contributor

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    "....3.22 Electronic Devices—Competitors are responsible to ensure that all electronic communications and audio devices in their possession forward of the ready line are silenced and communication disabled.

    (a) During team matches only, team members may communicate with each other via communications devices. These communication devices must only be capable of communicating with other team members, and must not interfere with safety, range operations, or other competitors.

    (b) Radars, chronographs and other devices designed to measure bullet velocity are prohibited on the line...."

    The quoted rule addresses what is not allowed on the shooting line, FWIW.
     

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