School me on custom rimfire actions

Discussion in 'Rimfire & Smallbore' started by bichettereds, Feb 17, 2019.

  1. bichettereds

    bichettereds Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2012
    Messages:
    284
    Turbo, 10X, 2500X, others?

    Swindlehurst?

    How do they compare to each other? What are the benefits over a Suhl, Anschutz or 40X?

    Looking at single shot only with benchrest in mind.

    Thanks
     
    Rope.Chucker and dgeesaman like this.
  2. Danoh

    Danoh Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2017
    Messages:
    114
    Enquiring minds want to know.
     
  3. JMayo

    JMayo

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2014
    Messages:
    679
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2019
  4. bichettereds

    bichettereds Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2012
    Messages:
    284
    Thanks JMayo. I’ve seen the lists and that’s why I’m asking. What are the major differences between those actions? What are some reasons to choose one over the other?
     
  5. JMayo

    JMayo

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2014
    Messages:
    679
    Well, I can only patriot what I've been told.
    The 6 o'clock firing pin is a big one.
    The way the spring interacts with the pin producing consistent hits.
    The way the trigger sear works with the bolt.
    The way the barrel fits in the action.

    There are known gunsmiths in ARA. Those are the ones ppl in ARA use. Actions and barrels that have won are sought, just like anything else I suppose.
    I bought my gun (xiii) at a match 5 yrs ago and I put a new barrel on it last year. I'm having a decent year. Eley has improved the match ammo it seems. Several 2500's shot at each match.
    In the .22 game every little thing matters.
    3 mistakes along with 3 bad bullets and you've missed 6 ....you're done ....
     
  6. Tim s

    Tim s

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2013
    Messages:
    590
    It’s not hard. They are generally straighter, have better tolerances, and have more consistant ignition. They also require few “work around” issues the others often do.
    While the BR game has a major element of “ monkey see monkey do “ whithin the context of your question, the above pretty much answers it.
     
  7. Kurt Blasser

    Kurt Blasser Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2016
    Messages:
    166
    Any names or recommendations for the well known gunsmiths?
     
  8. Tim s

    Tim s

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2013
    Messages:
    590
    Gordon Eck, Mark Penrod, R Gorham(via KSS) are pretty hard to beat.
     
    JMayo likes this.
  9. JMayo

    JMayo

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2014
    Messages:
    679
    Richard Gorham, Killougs shootings sports (kss) gunsmith.
    It seems Stiller may be very involved also. He makes The 2500 actions. Being a machinist he may be putting the rifles together, idk.
    Killougs can build you a complete unlimited or sporter rifle. Some games have weight restrictions.
    Call them. Ask for Paul, he is a shooter and can answer any question.
    I recommend a used rifle, put a new barrel on it.
     
    R.Morehouse likes this.
  10. 1813benny

    1813benny

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2012
    Messages:
    73
    The Turbo and 2500x (and their variants) are still being produced and appear to be the top dogs in benchrest with several manufacturing options - LBRP, RBRP, LBLP, etc.. The Swindlehurst was manufactured by Kelbly's but is no longer made - but it is an awesome action. Not sure if 10x is still in business as customer service was not their strong point....maybe they have gotten better.

    6 o'clock firing pin appears to have its' advantages. As to PAS or SAP, I cannot say with certainty which is better.

    Custom actions are held to higher tolerances than the standard production ones such as the 40x, Anschutz, Suhl etc. Depending on what you plan to do, a custom action may or may not be optimal. Note that when researching the actions, also check into what triggers can be mounted on each one.

    Hope this is of additional assistance.
    ken
     
    dc.fireman likes this.
  11. holstil

    holstil Silver $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2008
    Messages:
    776
    Sounds like your looking for specific differences in specific actions. You'll likely need to talk to a rim fire Smith that is familiar with many actions. A lot of shooters aren't aware of specific differences from one action to another, me included.
    I read some from Calfee's writings where he told of some of the specific qualities and reasons he liked building off different actions.
     
  12. Kurt Blasser

    Kurt Blasser Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2016
    Messages:
    166
    In my case, I would want to step up from my Anschutz Meister Grade, I think a br50 stock, 54 action, for FTR or FO. Currently shooting around 590 with that gun. Any suggestions?
     
    cleanprone likes this.
  13. Tim s

    Tim s

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2013
    Messages:
    590
    These guys build benchrest rifles.
     
  14. kseatm

    kseatm

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2017
    Messages:
    4
    Basic stuff:

    Most common custom actions- Turbo (two and three lug), 10x (two and three lug), Holeshot Arms (Jerry Stiller) (2500x (two lug), Trident (three lug), Hall. Some others you'll run into are the Lonestar (made by Stiller), Falcon (made by Leonard Baity), Swindlehurst, Time, etc. But mostly it's Turbo, 10x or the 2500x and Trident. Lots of Hall actions are out there and being used also.

    Jerry Stiller of Holeshot Arms (Texas) makes the 2500x, Trident and Lonestar. Anthony DiOrio (Virginia) makes the Turbo, Lonnie (can't remember his last name) from PA makes the 10x, Alan Hall makes the Hall (easy to figure that one out eh?), Leonard Baity (NC) makes the Falcon, etc etc...

    Main differences
    PAS (Pin Around Spring) Ignition-Turbo, 10x
    SAP (Spring around Pin) Ignition- 2500x, Trident (three lug version of 2500x), Falcon,, etc

    What it means? Calfee likes the PAS ignition. Some say it doesn't matter, some say it does. I don't know. Same with the 6 vs 12 O'clock firing pin. Most popular in the customs, personally not sure it matters though.

    Bix and FF triggers are the more popular triggers used on these. Jewel triggers are still used by quite a lot of shooters, but most of the big name shooters use the Bix or FF triggers anymore.

    Why these customs? Closer tolerances than factory actions. Not to say factory actions can't win, they can. Remington 40x, Win 52D, Suhl, Anschutz are great actions. Advantage of the Suhl is that the factory trigger rivals any of the aftermarket custom triggers. Most use Bix or Jewel triggers on the 40x. Anschutz of course has their own trigger, as does Win 52.

    But in general, custom actions should have closer tolerances than factory actions. Not to say custom actions don't need work when you get them. Turbo and 10x can be rough as a cob when new. Either requires knowledge on the owners part, or a gunsmith familiar with them to sort out. Not to say they won't shoot when new, but there's a lot that can and should be done to get them "right". Personally feel, the one action that is the most user friendly is the 2500x or Trident. More of a stick on a stock, stick on a trigger and barrel and away you go. Very well made actions.

    Known gunsmiths were listed earlier. Several others do very good work with any of these actions. Go with who you're comfortable with. Gorham and Eck are two of the more commonly used. Think Eck only works on the 2500x/Tridents anymore. You'd have to ask. Penrod, Langley, Blue all work on any of these actions. I'm more familiar with Don Blue so he does mine. Good friend and close so easy choice to make. Langley does some great work as I shoot against a lot of his guns and they do shoot well.

    Factory vs Custom...Personally have owned Win 52's, 40x's, Anschutz, Suhl, etc. Have shot most of these in matches and done pretty well. Even did very well with a lowly Kimber 82G in matches. As to custom actions, have owned Turbo, Falcon and Trident. Never really shot my Turbo much as it wasn't quite what I expected. Falcon was a struggle until I learned what makes these things tic. Worked great then. The Trident is the one that blew me away. From the start it has been everything I think a custom action should be. But again, this is all from a personal perspective.

    In a nutshell it's ignition, barrel and ammo. You get ahead of those you're going to be ok. The other stuff has to work well together, but any of these actions can and have won. Of course, personal ability plays a part I suppose:)

    May have missed something but in general this should help get you started. Good luck

    Kenny
     
    fultonbig9, FFEMT, hogpatrol and 7 others like this.
  15. bichettereds

    bichettereds Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2012
    Messages:
    284
    THATS what I was looking for! Thank you @kseatm !
     
  16. R.Morehouse

    R.Morehouse Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,357
    kseatm
    That was one real good post................Thank's for your time............:cool:

    Regards
    Rick
     
  17. CharlieNC

    CharlieNC Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,287
    What is it about the Falcon to make it tic?
     
  18. Bill40718

    Bill40718

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2015
    Messages:
    10
    Charlie,

    Kenny's Falcon, which later became my Falcon, suffered a number of problems. I cannot remember, from many conversations with Kenny, all of the issues. There were stock problems and I think a bedding problem, but the most significant problem by far was achieving consistent ignition.
    Kenny did considerable work on the bolt body interior and the firing pin. He is a good man to see with a recalcitrant Falcon bolt. When I owned the rifle it worked just fine and was more accurate than I could take advantage of.
    I'll bet Kenny will be along to embellish upon, or maybe destroy, what I have contributed here. With Kenny, you just never know.
     
  19. Lannister

    Lannister

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2018
    Messages:
    95
    From what I can understand the original turbo or the turbo clones have probably won more benchrest competitions than any other. With that being said I believe any of the top actions, turbo clones, anschutz, Stiller 2500X or various other types are capable of winning. I think it has more to do with the barrel and ammo. Regardless of what Mr Calfee thinks people such as Joe Besche have won with an anschutz action. Winning does not require a pas, triple lug, turbo action.The current ARA aggregate record is held by a 2500X action I think. Buy whatever you prefer and get the right barrel and ammo and you have a combination capable of winning.
     
  20. kseatm

    kseatm

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2017
    Messages:
    4
    Serious ignition issues. But, at the time, was a babe in the woods when it came to what makes custom actions work as they should. Two years of trying this, trying that. Went down some side roads with that thing.

    Learned a lot, spent more money and time than any sane person should. At the end, 2 hours with some files and hones turned a turd into the most accurate rifle I'd ever owned. Just had to find someone who understood what makes a rifle shoot well. One glance at the bolt and he told me what the issue was. Didn't I feel stupid!

    What people new to this need to realize is that a custom action is just an action made by someone other than a factory. What they do, how they go about it, and how "finished" the action is, will vary wildly from action to action. And each action, be it a Turbo, a 10x, a Falcon, etc can require different types of work done to them. Just depends on how they were individually finished.

    An example, Tim Miller, one of the best shooters in the country uses the 10x actions. He knows what he wants, knows where to look, and how to get them working best for him. Others use the Turbo actions. Again, they know where the issues are, and how to fix them.

    Some feel that this is to be expected because there's no way a person who makes one of these actions can make money if they spent the time needed to refine each to the best it can be. Personally think Jerry Stiller blew this theory out of the water with his actions. But again, it doesn't matter. You pay your money and you get what you get. Up to you to figure it out, or pay to have someone else fix the issues.

    Moral of the story for those looking at these things. Choose what you wish, they all can win any match you enter. Some require more work than others to make "right". But if the ignition is correct, if you have a good barrel and good ammo, you can be competitive with anyone out there. A great barrel and great ammo makes you more than competitive.

    JMPO

    Kenny
     

Share This Page