FORUM NOTICE CONTEST! Gear Give-Away for GOLD Forum Members

Discussion in 'Main Message Board' started by Forum Boss, Aug 26, 2017.

  1. ronemus

    ronemus Gold $$ Contributor

    Jan 9, 2007
    I did an experiment several years ago to determine just how much effect brass weight has on .223 loads. I used WW brass (sized, trimmed and deburred, primer pockets uniformed, flash holes deburred, and neck turned) , WSR primers, charges of RL-15 or N-550 powder weighed to 0.1 gr, and 75 gr A-Max bullets. Using the lightest and heaviest cases (sorted from 1000 once-fired I had on hand), I had two lots of 10 cases with a 3 gr difference in weight. The average muzzle velocity difference was 16 fps, just a bit more than the 12 fps due to 0.1 gr of powder. I choose to sort 0.5 gr lots of .223 brass for my long range loads, but the effect will only matter at 800-1000 yards - the vertical displacement on the target from such a small velocity change is negligible at shorter distances. Unless you control all other sources of variation, the effect of brass weight is negligible. I also shoot .284, and because the brass is twice as heavy I batch in 1 gr lots.
  2. wvlongshot

    wvlongshot Gold $$ Contributor

    Sep 6, 2011
    2017-09-06 20.49.32.png

    My tip would be in regards to the weather. You should have a weather rock near your home for daily inspection on current shooting conditions.
    If rock is moving, bring kestrel wind meter, it's windy.
    If rock is wet, raining or has rained, rain gear needed.
    If rock is white, snow or similar conditions, prep for it.
    If rock is cold, dress for cold weather, bring hot drinks or a smooth burbon.
    If rock is hot, dry, and casts shadow, sun is bright. Dress for it, bring plenty of cold drinks;).
    If rock is gone? Weather is too bad to shoot in. Stay indoors or go on to work. Bad as ya hate to :).
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2017
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  3. falconpilot

    falconpilot Gold $$ Contributor

    Feb 1, 2008
    1) Never think you can "shoot throught it". You can't!! Many a 9's earned because of this.. Stop shooting when you know you should.

    2) Always carry 3 spare old, fired cases with you to the firing line on your first relay of the get everything lined up and fire your string..when you are clearing your firing point, drive a old case neck first into the hole your feet left when you removed your rest..then for rest of day, when your up, pull cases out of holes, drop rest in place and your lined up in record time..
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2017
    Fred B., Joe R, johnnyi and 1 other person like this.
  4. Dos XX

    Dos XX Russell Myers Gold $$ Contributor

    May 30, 2013
    One of my favorite things about traveling to a match is finding good places to eat. What is a better tip than where to eat?

    Tulsa Red Castle Gun Club: This is my home range. After our monthly prone matches, a lot of us go to Ron's Hamburgers & Chili. We get a big table and have a late lunch and make fun of each other's scores. Ron's is a local joint that was established in 1975. There are several chain restaurants nearby, but Ron's is the place. They take burgers seriously at Ron's.

    Their special burger is a cheeseburger with onions cooked in the meat, topped with bacon bits, a slice of ham, and both pepper jack and American cheese, plus lettuce, pickles, and onions. Their extra special burger is the same thing only the patty is 1/2 beef and 1/2 country sausage, still with onions cooked in the meat and topped with bacon bits and a slice of ham. It is called the Buster Burger. Their fries are world class as well and you can get them with onions and jalapenos fried with them. All of this is served with a side of Lipitor.

    Now, if there is a multi-day match, or if I drive over and stay the night before our monthly matches, Sandite Billiards & Grill is the place to be. It is a small town pool hall / bar with a kitchen. A really good kitchen. They have a decent burger, but the sleeper hit is that they have a $20.00 filet mignon. I am talking about a really good filet mignon. It would easily be a $40.00 steak at a nice restaurant in Tulsa. The cut of meat is fantastic and they cook them perfectly to order. It was a real surprise when we first discovered how good the steak was at Sandite. It is now the regular place for evening meals on match weekends.

    By the way, do my cases have head space?
  5. brians356

    brians356 Gold $$ Contributor

    Nov 18, 2013
    Scope manufacturers' instructions for adjusting away parallax are woefully inadequate. They advise adjusting focus until the target image is sharp. However that depends on the ocular (eyepiece) which is assumed to be focused on the reticle. But their procedure for focusing the ocular is itself dicey: "Point the scope at the blank sky, glance quickly at the reticle (don't stare at it!), adjust, repeat, etc. You are required to fight you eye's innate ability to bring the reticle into focus over a very wide range of adjustment. There's a more precise, comprehensive approach, based on first principles: The only condition under which parallax error will be zero and target image sharp is when both objective and ocular have been focused on the reticle plane.

    The easiest way to adjust for both zero parallax error and sharp target focus (making no assumptions about the scope's adjustments whatsoever) is as follows:

    1. Adjust objective (side focus or AO) for zero parallax error (i.e. no apparent reticle movement on target while moving your eye around behind the eyepiece.) Ignore target image focus! Now the objective is focused on the reticle.

    2. Adjust ocular eyepiece for sharpest image focus (and, coincidentally, reticle focus - since they are now in the same plane). This is much easier than focusing on the reticle alone with a bright blank background, but you should still trust your eye's first impression, which will avoid eye fatigue.

    Once you get the eyepiece thus focused on the reticle plane, and locked, thereafter focusing the target image for sharpness should also minimize parallax error, but I never trust that on the bench when testing accuracy - I always move my eye around behind the ocular to make darned sure there is no parallax error.

    Last edited: Sep 7, 2017
    ericbc7 and Joe R like this.
  6. Milo 2.0

    Milo 2.0 Gold $$ Contributor

    Mar 6, 2011
    First, let me say I'm not a BR shooter, so many here will never take tips from me. Not saying my guns are inaccurate, just the accuracy I demand is somewhat less than BR standards.
    Seating bullets with a regular press. standard die configuration, not an arbor press, with specialty dies. Out of necessity rather than experimental, I found seating bullets with the next size caliber up equivalent die really helps in COAL.
    It stemmed from trying to seat bullets for a 6mm Creedmoor with only 6.5 Creed dies, I was amazed at the consistency of the coal, and chalked it up to the bigger seating plug grabbing the bullet closer to ogive part of the bullet we associate the lands with.
    Soon after I built a 6x47 Lapua, again only 6.5x47 dies, did buy the sizer for it. Then 6 SLR, and replaced my 243 die for 6 comp match with a 260 sizer.
    Like I said upfront, BR accuracy would be desired(sans the work) but not needed totally, but in a new chamber the seat depth for the first 500 rds by far the most crucial before enough throat wear makes it more forgiving<hybrid style bullets.
    Today I seat 6XC bullets with the 6.5x47 die, it just works for me.
  7. TxGnRnr

    TxGnRnr Gold $$ Contributor

    Jul 9, 2017
    Like Milo, I'm not a BR shooter, but I am often described as attentive to detail, so take this advice as you will:

    Use a micrometer. I started reloading as I feel most others do, with a set of calipers. In my case, it was a set of electronic calipers from Frankford Arsenal. As comfortable and fast as those calipers are, I felt some inconsistencies depending on how hard/tightly I held the calipers as I was measuring. After reading more about measuring technique, especially on machinists' forums, I learned that calipers are often called "guessing sticks" by those who need truly accurate measurements. Since then, I have acquired a set of mic's, learned how to use them, and now double-check my calipers every reloading session. Yes, it is more tedious, but so are most of the processes that help us load better ammo (primer pocket uniforming, chamfering and deburring case mouths, etc.)
  8. mao0720

    mao0720 Gold $$ Contributor

    Dec 18, 2012
    Take a scientific approach to reloading! Control variables and work up loads it the most organized, constant manner. Below is my process for working up a new load.
    1. Find max Jam. Take a sized, unprimed pieced of brass prepped exactly how you will for a loaded round and seat a bullet on the EMPTY case. Seat the bullet much longer than what will actually chamber in your rifle. Take this dummy round and place it in your rifle and close the bolt. This may take some firm pressure. What you are doing is forcing the bullet into the lands and pushing the bullet back into the case. Remove the dummy round and measure it from base to ogive if you have an OAL comparator, or base to meplat if you don’t have a comparator. Pull the bullet and re-do this step several times. You are trying to get a repeatable measurement on what your maximum cartridge length is.
    2. Optimum charge. Starting with a safe load, load 3-5 rounds of each charge working up in .3 grain increments per group. I usually do 8-10 loads in this charge weight work up. ALL of these loaded rounds should be seated to the same OAL as what you measured in the step above. You are only varying the charge weight. Go to the range and shoot all of these rounds at 100yds, each group at its own target/ aiming point. I use a bunch of 1” orange dots on the same piece of poster board. Watch for pressure signs on the case as you move up in charges, and stop if pressure gets hot (flat or pierced primers, ejector swipe on the brass, heavy bolt lift). Try to be ultra consistent in how you handle the gun. Again you are trying to limit variables. When you analyze this set of loads after you have shot them, you are not necessarily looking for the single best group. You are looking for 3 charges in a row that show the most consistent accuracy across all three, and the most consistent point of impact vs point of aim. You will probably see that as you work up in charge accuracy will progressively get better then worse then better, in a nodal pattern. One of these accuracy nodes will usually be significantly better than the rest. I usually re-test the three loads that I think cover the node shooting another 5 shots of each to make sure I have found a good node. I then select the middle charge of the three in the node.

    Image one below shows the nodal pattern of optimum charge weight. Because 23.6 gr and 24.3 gr in the groups above were very good but 23.9 was not, I retested these three groups to see if I pulled a shot on the 23.9 group. In this retest, I found that all three shot 3 shot groups touching. So I will take the charge in the middle of the 3 charge weights and use that. This give a large window on either side of the selected charge.

    3. Next I work on seating depth by loading every round with the charge weight selected in the previous step. The variable here is OAL. I start at the max length that was found in step one and used in step two, and I seat each group of 3-5 rounds .003” shorter than the last. So if my max OAL is 2.350, I would load 3-5 rounds at 2.350, 3-5 at 2.347, 3-5 at 2.344 etc. I usually cover .030 to .040 of total change in OAL. Shoot these rounds the same way you did the rounds in step 2 and analyze them the same way also. Looking for a node of 3 groups in a row of consistent accuracy.

    Image two below shows the nodal pattern of optimum OAL.

    4. Now you have optimal charge weight and optimal seating depth. From here I usually load 25-30 rounds of this load. I will shoot a 5 shot group or two at 100yds, a 5 shot group or two at 200yds, and a 10 shot group at 100 or 200dys, just to make sure that everything looks good. Then to make extra sure I've found a good load, I will shoot at longer ranges. I have yet to find a load in this manner that shot well at 100/200 yards but did not shoot well at long range.

    After charge and OAL are worked out, you can test different primers, or change neck tension. But remember, one variable at a time, control all other variables that you can.
    IMG_2372.JPG IMG_2375.JPG
  9. Toolbreaker

    Toolbreaker Gold $$ Contributor

    Apr 26, 2013
    When load testing:

    1) Try to plan ahead for favorable conditions. Mother nature can wreck havoc with gathering accurate info from load testing. Check the weather forecast ahead to plan for windy conditions, possible heavy mirage, ect. It'll save your sanity.

    2) When ladder testing a load for mid to long range, extend your range for the test. 100 yards can turn into an indistinguishable mess on a target for this type of testing. Around 300 works well for me and my type of shooting, but farther may be better depending on your goals.

    3) When ladder testing as above, I prefer to shoot two tests back-to-back instead of one. Let's me verify that both tests coincide with each other, and frankly, just makes me feel better about the ladder repeating.

    4) Take another rifle with you when testing. While your testing rifle is cooling off, you can occupy your time with #2. Personally, I like to take my old Mossy .22. I can just plink cans/horseapples/paper & enjoy the downtime without getting in a rush waiting on #1 to cool off.

    As a side note: Have fun! Dialing in an accurate load is half the fun of shooting IMO.
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2017
  10. rkittine

    rkittine Gold $$ Contributor

    Oct 19, 2014
    Are you a right hand benchrest shooter, but left eye dominant? Of the other way around. I am left eye dominant, which has been confirmed by a number of professionals, doctors as well as shooting coaches.

    When I shoot benchrest I get all screwed up when trying to keep both eyes open, so I started to shoot with my left eye closed. That caused two problems, one was that being left eye dominant, my left eye really wanted to be open and after a few shots, my right eye would have a problem staying in focus. The second issue was that I had a hard time keeping my dominant eye closed without it fluttering.

    Next step was to try an eye patch, which worked great, but then I was not able to look in the scope and at the same time see the wind flags.

    Why not switch to left hand shooting? I have a pacemaker embedded in my left shoulder and I have not mastered free recoil shooting.

    With the help of my Short Range Benchrest Mentor, I tried some other methods including a mirror system. I did not want a weird right shoulder, left hand stock, which was also suggested.

    Then something dawned on me. I shot shotguns with both eyes open and was having a issue with point of impact, until I started using an occluder.

    So, I tried my shooting glasses with a translucent occluder taped in the area of my left lense, that would take out the scope and the end of the barrel.

    At least for me this worked. I get light through the translucent dot as well as around it, my left eye does not try to take over and I can see wind flags around the dot.

    At least for me, problem solved.

  11. Forum Boss

    Forum Boss Administrator

    Sep 9, 2009
    TIME'S UP on this Golden Give-Away Contest

    This contest is now officially closed to new Entries (As of 10:00 PM CT on September 10, 2017).

    Thank you to all GOLD Members who participated and shared their helpful reloading, shooting, and gunsmithing tips.

    We will announce the winners tomorrow...

    And get ready for the NEXT CONTEST. The first prize will be something you guys all covet. HINT: It's very orange and has been a game-changer.

    Joe R likes this.
  12. joshb

    joshb Gold $$ Contributor

    Oct 5, 2014
    A box of clay pidgeon targets?:confused::p:p:p:p
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  13. joshb

    joshb Gold $$ Contributor

    Oct 5, 2014
    Shhhhh!! It's a "mystery prize"!;)
    Joe R likes this.
  14. Forum Boss

    Forum Boss Administrator

    Sep 9, 2009
    And the WINNERS ARE...

    We had some great entries in our first Golden Give-Away Contest for Gold Forum members. Some tips were creative, bordering on brilliant. We certainly have some very smart folks in the Forum. Congrats to our three winners: Keith Glasscock (1st), Joe R (2nd), and James Mock (3rd). And we want to thank all the Gold Members who participated. We'll be having another contest soon....

    First Prize -- Keith Glasscock
    Wins Caldwell LR Target Cam System
    TIP: Upside-Down Press for Bullet tipping

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    This is really thinking "outside the box" but it does show real creativity. We know a lot of guys spend hours pointing their match bullets. Inverting the press makes the whole process work with less effort, more control, and fewer dropped bullets. Thanks Keith!

    Second Prize -- Joe R
    Wins $75.00 Certificate for Whidden Gunworks Products
    TIP: Precision Mandrels (plus Spotting Scope Tip)



    The idea of controlling neck tension from the INSIDE is really smart. With his tip Joe R explained how to use .0001"-tolerance pin gauges as ultra-precise mandrels. Joe R also came up with a great ground-level spotting scope mount. With those two great submissions Joe earned his $75.00 certificate.

    Third Prize -- James Mock
    Wins Applied Ballistics Book ($40 Value)
    Tip: How to Find Ideal Seating Depth.
    James Mock, a talented benchrest shooter, has a method that helps you zero in on the best seating depth for your barrel and bullet -- try hot, medium, and mild loads at each depth: "When one finds a 3-shot group that is in the same relative position with each powder charge (like those at .015 off), that is a great seating depth." Look at that test target -- the results are pretty clear.


    Note: Winners please contact Forum boss with your address and phone number so we can send your prizes.
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2017
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  15. Joe R

    Joe R Gold $$ Contributor

    Feb 4, 2013
    Hi Forum Boss,

    I am grateful to you for recognizing the value of the tips I provided.

    My goal in participating in the forum is for me to learn and to help other shooters be the best shooters they can be. If we can make it easier for people to develop their shooting skills I hope that more people will be attracted to the various shooting disciplines.

    Regarding the $75 prize, I would like to donate that back to the web site/you for providing a valuable resource to the shooting community.

    Kindest regards,

    Joe Regina
    JLT and wvlongshot like this.
  16. Milo 2.0

    Milo 2.0 Gold $$ Contributor

    Mar 6, 2011

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