6.5mm...

Discussion in 'Competition Forum (All Calibers)' started by IdahoSharpshooter, Mar 15, 2019.

  1. IdahoSharpshooter

    IdahoSharpshooter Gold $$ Contributor

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    I am unable to understand why the Creedmoor is preferable to a regular 260 Remington.

    Someone, please enlighten me, with hard data. It looks like a 300 Savage necked down and Improved. So many of the new cartridge seem based primarily to get people to buy new rifles, and new barrels.
    Most hunters need to be convinced that there have been any worthwhile improvements since the 300 WM and 7mm Rem Mag were introduced more than half a century ago.

    thank you...

    Your obt Svt,

    Rich
     
  2. NZ_Fclass

    NZ_Fclass

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    I'm sure that with enough marketing and advertising, we would all return to stuffing bullets down the front.

    And with loony behaviour, like the muppet in NZ today, that's probably sooner than we think.
     
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  3. dminn1

    dminn1

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    Maybe not preferable, but you get a shorter case length that can help with mag length seating of optimal bullets and a 30 degree shoulder that may help with case length growth.
     
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  4. billbonser

    billbonser

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    The Creedmoor is very similar to the 6.5 mm IHMSA, (formed from 300 Savage brass), that I and several others shot in the early 80's. I currently have a 6.5 mm SOS that is very similar to the 260 AI and a truly fine shooter. Bottom line is finding the most accurate cartridge for the discipline you are shooting, and you are happy with.
     
  5. Downhill

    Downhill

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    I use the 260 extensively, competing, hunting and general shooting. Love it. Remington never really pushed the cartridge as far as I can find. The creedmoor is a fine cartridge that gained a lot of popularity in high power rifle comps early on. With it's early successes it was destined to take off. Had the 260 been used that successfully the role would be opposite.
     
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  6. Hondo64d

    Hondo64d

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    The 6.5 Creedmoor factory rifle/ammo combination gets right what other cartridges got ALMOST right, but not quite.

    Twisted correctly for modern VLD type bullets. .260 was not in most factory rifles.

    Correct freebore length to allow those VLD type bullets to reach the lands at magazine length. Most .260s were not favorably throated.

    Good quality OTC factory ammo. Can go in any Walmart and find 6.5 Creedmoor ammo.

    30 degree shoulder angle is easier on throats and proven to be inherently accurate.

    The 6.5x47 Lapua is great too but available in very few factory rifles and very limited factory ammo makes it nearly a handloading only proposition. There have been some complaints of the SRPs not igniting the powder charges in extreme cold. Those are the reasons I converted from the Lapua to the Creedmoor.

    John
     
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  7. grovey

    grovey Silver $$ Contributor

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    This isn't entirely true. I bought a cheap 700 in 6.5 last fall and with the 140 gr Amax I was near 0.60 longer than the mag length at touch. ( 2.860) . I dumped the 700 , and bought a Tikka. The Amax fit perfectly in the case at a full 0.57 longer BTO. The rifle has an additional 0.60 in the mag allowing me to feed from the mag at touch if I choose too. Good deal, but the freebore is a tad too long as the 120gr category of match bullets are only in the neck by .150-.200. Same goes for the 140 hybrid, and the 139's I'm testing now aren't much better.
     
  8. ShootDots

    ShootDots Gold $$ Contributor

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    The 6.5 Creed and the 6.5 x 47 Lapua can give .260 performance out of a TRUE short action magazine, using 140 class bullets. The Creed can give about 60-70f.p.s. more than the 6.5 x 47. Whether that can translate into giving a "competitive edge" or not, is the basis for much "keyboard debating" on each ones merits. If your competitive discipline requires a single load / single shot, then between the 6.5 x 47, 6.5 Creed and .260 Rem, performance will be so similar that you may not be able to distinguish one from the other. That is just factual performance. Literary hype is another story indeed! Hornady has now taught everyone how to "sell" a cartridge.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
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  9. IdahoSharpshooter

    IdahoSharpshooter Gold $$ Contributor

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    not all of us...
     
  10. ShootDots

    ShootDots Gold $$ Contributor

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    I believe you misinterpreted my last statement. The "Everyone" in there is referenced to cartridge manufacturers, not the public in general. Unless of course you are part of those cartridge manufacturers who are trying to sell your cartridge to the general public..
     
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  11. Hondo64d

    Hondo64d

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    I wonder if Remington used the standard .199” freebore. In my Beanland 6.5CM. I have no problems reaching the lands with 140gr ELDs loaded to 2.85” OAL. Pretty sure he said his reamer used the standard .199” freebore. That being said, I get better accuracy off the lands so for me it’s been a non-issue.

    John
     
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  12. grovey

    grovey Silver $$ Contributor

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    I don't know, but I was surprised by this. From my experience 2.825 is max for a S/A Rem magazine box, and staying at the std 2.800 is better for feeding. I didn't expect to have to deal with that with the short CM case.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2019
  13. Sniper338

    Sniper338

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    MARKETING.
     
  14. mdbruce

    mdbruce

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    There’s really not hard data per se. It’s that Hornady spent their money on their product then made sure the market was supplied with the needed components to ensure their product’s success.

    Also it helps that Hornady matched the twist rate for what people wanted/needed to shoot, then made sure ammo and reloading components were available. And I suppose in the early stages they made sure there were good factory rifle options? all of which .260 has none of

    Marketing helps, but the key is they marketed a good product. It’s been around for 12 years...so it did take a while.

    My thing is I’ve never understood the haters. Free market, free choice. The tide rises all ships.

    The 6.5 Creedmoor and the products that followed bc of it brought more people to shooting.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019
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  15. Rogmay

    Rogmay Gold $$ Contributor

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    Both of you have excellent valid advise and input on the topic, I enjoy reading these posts when people aren’t just posting hearsay and bashing on a product because it’s considered a “koolaid”. Thanks again for the posts!
     
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  16. DHuffman

    DHuffman Gold $$ Contributor

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    Agreed!
     
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  17. SouthGAnightmare

    SouthGAnightmare Gold $$ Contributor

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    My first custom rifle was 6.5cm. I picked it cause my builder told me I could get the custom loaded ammo off the shelf and shoot small groups and compete.

    That same deer hunting gun as I call it now. Has shot 4.2” 5 shot groups at 1000 yards.

    I now have 4 6.5CM benchrest guns that have shot some great groups and won relays at nationals and regular matches.

    For me it’s a really easy loading caliber

    use lapua brass, reloader 16, fed 205 primer and Berger’s. It’s gone be competitive and not make you spend tons of time tuning.

    Haters gone hate! But they don’t wanna try to out score me lol
     
  18. Kurz

    Kurz

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    Maybe, kinda, sorta... not too unlike your comment about the .25 XC in another thread. The body has been blown out at the shoulder some and the length is a little longer but under the 2.00" line. Yes, both have a 30 degree shoulder so you have that much.

    And that's what keeps a part of the economy growing. And it's still free market and free choice. New choices, properly designed, stimulate the potential buyers into buying, not unlike the old comparison for fishing lures and fishermen. Are you against helping the manufacturers and the economy grow?

    The PRC competitions added two additional classes.

    Production and Gas Gun

    Gas Gun is obvious but the 'production rifle' was directly aimed at bringing new shooters into the competitions. It has a limited selection of factory production rifles and a price ceiling used for both the rifle and the scope. Many companies have now entered into manufacturing rifles made specifically to compete in this division by adhering to the price ceiling yet producing rifles with fine accuracy. Since accuracy in the PRS divisions isn't measure by 0.001's, factory ammunition from Hornady in the form of 6.5 Creedmoor and 6mm Creedmoor are extremely popular. The general public, desiring to compete without investing mega dollars into equipment, can now do so AND buy factory ammunition, avoiding the investment in reloading equipment for the initial experience. Many catch the bug and continue on by moving up in divisions and starting to reload.

    Then too, as mentioned above, large numbers of hunters have started shooting rifles chambered for the Creedmoor cartridges because of the ammunition availability also. This is Win-Win in my opinion. There is no downside.

    Enjoy the experience!:)
     
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  19. TC260

    TC260

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    Enjoy the experience is right!! Life's way too short to be upset about cartridge design :D
     
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  20. MikeMcCasland

    MikeMcCasland Gold $$ Contributor

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    As far as hard-data, I don't know that it's "better", but it does have advantages in terms of seating depth, mag feeding, brass growth, and ever so slightly, barrel wear/efficiency.

    I was a .260 shooter until very recently; I've worn out several barrels chambered in it, own a few .260 reamers etc.. I finally made the jump to 6.5CM this year, and I wish I'd of done it a lot sooner.

    Where I struggled on the .260s was with consistency; they're just temperamental as hell in my experience. One day you'll think you found 'the load', and the very next day it shoots like garbage. I'm not alone in this either; there are quite a few accounts posted on this forum about it, and as much as I hated to admit it at the time, my experiences were identical to many of those posters (google "Why is the .260 so difficult to tune?"). Conversely, there are also lots of guys who claim to get great accuracy out of them; I can't speak to that, but can only relay my experiences.

    Unlike the .260, my 6.5CM just dialed right in immediately; barrel/chamber aside, everything else was the exact same. And from what I've seen at the range, that seems to be a common occurrence; they just seem more apt to bughole.

    All that said, I've seen some very accurate .260s before, and I know lots of people that love them.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2019
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