Discussion in 'Small Stuff--22s, 20s, and 17s' started by 2506lover, Aug 4, 2017.
Post #39, last sentence.
Reamer print shows chamber length 1.6264. Subtracting .010 trim-to length would correspond to the figure quoted.
FB is shown as .067, so it should be possible if using PRI (or similar) mags to either load Sierra 90 SMK's longer to make room for more powder or load Berger 90's if your twist is fast enough.
Edit: FB = Freebore haha, thought you were referring to something on Facebook lol
Actually the chamber print shows a chamber length of 1.610, and .050 Freebore. This is the print that was submitted to SAAMI from Jacob Burns at Federal.
I tell you the truth, these attempts to hot rod the Ar15 just seem like the ultimate waste of time, when the vast majority of anyone out there can out shoot a good 1-8 twist barrel 223 now. Even if it were necessary to hot rod one, why wouldn't you simply use the 22 PPC... the bolts and mags are already available. It just seems really silly to me. But I guess the Internet has made me weary of fads...
It looks like it'll be a fun cartridge.
I'd like to see a 22 Nosler case trimmed and necked back to meet the dimensions of the 224 Valkyrie.
That way you get Nosler brass (better than Federal) and a more robust bolt (also just a normal AR bolt).
That would be the way I would do it. But this looks like a great start.
Thanks for the information. The figures I mentioned were from the PT&G print, so one should be specific when ordering reamers,etc.
Based on my personal experience, I question your supposition that Nosler brass is better than Federal. I have had equally disappointing experience with both.
The primary issue with the 22 Nosler is the rebated rim, not the bolt.
Airborne Arms LLC just announced a dedicated rifle (Herja) for the cartridge.
D-tech is chambering for it, but they don't share any information other than to ask them about it. He also lists a 6mm Valkyrie.
I have multiple friends with 12+ firings on nosler 6.5 creedmoor brass shooting 142SMKs at 2800 fps.
I can hardly get 5 firings out of my 175smk 43.5g of RL-15 in a federal case before the neck splits or the primer pockets loose.
In my experience, I’d say nosler brass is at least a bit better than Federal (which isn’t saying much).
What’s the problem with th rebated rim? I haven’t heard of it being an issue. I’m interested in what issue it causes.
There are two issues with rebated rims.
The first should be obvious. Less brass in the case head means less strength.
The second, maybe not so obvious. The ratio of rim material to case surface in contact with the chamber walls. Less case taper makes this situation worse. Read some of the comments from 22Nosler users and the two most common complaints are loose primer pockets and torn up rims.
I measured a AA Grendel case capacity to the base of the neck and compared it to a SSA 6.8SPC case and could not find any meaningful difference. So the is no performance advantage to the PPC case and the downside is greater bolt thrust against a weaker bolt.
It is necessary to "hot rod" the 223 for distances beyond 600yds, where it becomes a shot put. Hardly "silly".
The 22X6.8 appears to be essentially equivalent in performance to the 224 Valkyrie with less trouble for reloaders (standard 6.8SPC F/L bushing dies with a couple of step down bushings). For those who don't reload, the Valkyrie would be the obvious choice.
Barrels are available from Ritch Johnson (who invented the 22X6.8) at ritchsprecisionguns.com (435)229-2121 or from Black Hole Weaponry (Columbia River Arms, 503-410-5583). They both use the same straight neck down reamer.
Have you measured the case capacity?
I measured a Grendel case (AA) and 6.8SPC case (SSA) to the base of the neck using a high density extruded powder (RL17) and both are about 31.0gr +/- 0.5gr.
I am curious how much capacity, if any, might be lost due to the shoulder of the Valkyrie being a bit shorter than the SPC.
This obsession with turning every rifle into a 1000 yard competition rifle is the definition of "silly". And it is so boring... Since the Internet, shooting distances have increased by double...
Another definition of "silly" is assuming anyone else cares about your negative opinions.
Since it appears you can't contribute anything constructive to this discussion, I suggest your time would be better spent with others who don't believe the AR platform need be improved upon.
When it comes to brass hardness, Federal's 308 is some of the softest, but their 223 brass is very hard (one extra forming step). But you don't have to guess or take my word for it, you can do your own comparative measurements. It's easy.
I've been drilling and tapping my shot-from-my-gun brass for use for checking distance to lands. I keep one such specimen for each bullet I'm shooting for load reference and to check throat erosion.
Drill is a 7/64 and a good quality 6-32 tap. I hold the cartridge in my left hand and drill/tap using a cordless drill in my right. You can easily feel the difference in effort in both the drilling and tapping operations. Federal 308 cuts like butter, Fed 223 is very tough. You don't need an expensive gage to know which one is better, your hands will suffice. Last week I ripped a chunk of skin loose, spinning the brass while tapping a 6.5 Hornaday case. That told me all I needed to know.
Just drilled and tapped some Nosler 338 LM as well as two other brands ( S&B and GWT). Big difference in hardness in one brand. Nosler was hard to drill and tap and I had plenty, so that's what I'm using to load.
are any of the existing 22 or 6 wildcats significantly better at punching paper at 600 out of an ar15 mag?
There is an excellent article in the archives of this site regarding brass hardness testing. The author employed a very expensive testing machine used in the aerospace industry. The softest 223 brass by a wide margin was Federal.
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