195g Berger hybrid .284 caliber

[Lbart]

We did not go for max speed but the accuracy loads seem to be 100-150 fps less with 195 vs 180 in 7/270 WSM. Photo shows group at 2820 fps. This is not max vel but max accuracy in this barrel.

 

[stgw77]

What about recoil with 195s if you put them side by side with 180 hybrids? Still manageable for F-class (personal opinion of course)?

 

[Danny1788]

The 7mm 195 grain Berger Hybrid is not a myth…. it has been tested by Team Berger members, but it is very IMPORTANT to remember these bullets are designed for hunting and made with a thinner jackets than Berger’s normal target bullets. A thicker jacket version for target shooting may come to market later.
I did testing at a 4,000 foot altitude in 80 degree temperatures using my 1-9 twist 7-270 WSM at speeds up to 2880 fps. The Hunting 195’s grouped at least as good as my normal Berger 180 Hybrids. I shot groups at both 100 yards and 1,000 yards. Groups while working up loads at 100 were all sub ¼ moa and the averages for the last 10 groups (50 shots) at 1,000 had an ES of 5.513" with a vertical of 4.251" under very poor mirage conditions. These are shooting as well or better than my 180 hybrids.

Two other Team members have done testing also with extremely good results. I will attach two electronic target system screen shots. One shot with a 1-9 twist barrel and another from a 1-8.25”. These were shot at 1,000 foot altitude. The third team member was shooting at 611 feet altitude with 1-8.5” twists. Both are very happy with the results.

Remember these are thin jacket bullets! Not recommended for target shooting.

THIS IS AWESOME NEWS!!!!!!!!!! I have a custom 7mmSTW with a 1-9" twist 27" barrel. I was running the numbers through the stability program and it looked like it would stablize at 3000ft altitude with my 1-9" barrel. Im running hot loads through my stw so im hoping to get up to 2950-2975fps with Retumbo.

This just confirms my thinking that it will stabilze. What BC are you using at 2880fps to 1k yards in your 1-9" 7-270wsm?

 

[Lbart]

What about recoil with 195s if you put them side by side with 180 hybrids? Still manageable for F-class (personal opinion of course)?

I never thought about or noticed recoil while shooting them, probably about the same.

 

[Lbart]

THIS IS AWESOME NEWS!!!!!!!!!! I have a custom 7mmSTW with a 1-9" twist 27" barrel. I was running the numbers through the stability program and it looked like it would stablize at 3000ft altitude with my 1-9" barrel. Im running hot loads through my stw so im hoping to get up to 2950-2975fps with Retumbo.

This just confirms my thinking that it will stabilze. What BC are you using at 2880fps to 1k yards in your 1-9" 7-270wsm?

G1 = 0.755 G7= 0.387 according to Bryan Litz & Berger. Remember these are Hunting Bullets.

 

[Elwood]

I'm curious as to why Berger decided to go with a hunting bullet first? When it would seem logical to introduce it to a much larger target shooter community first.

 

[STOMP442]

The first time I heard about these they were introduced by Bob Beck of Extreme Outer Limits, which is a long range hunting based operation. I do not know anything for sure, but I think the 195s may have been a partnership in regards to development and advertising which wold explain the hunting style being the first to come out.

 

[1KBR]

So, being a thinner jacketed hunting style bullet, do you anticipate the 2800 fps area will be the velocity/spin rate limit in 8 to 8.5 twist barrels before bullet blow up becomes a problem?

 

[barefooter56]

To all,
Dont be afraid to use the 7mm 195s as TARGET bullets either! That's why the word"MATCH" is in the name.

 

[barefooter56]

Guys,
I need to add that the 195 grain Hunting hybrid does have the thinner jacket so if you are using them for a target round. Watch out for issues involving jacket failure due to friction due to barrel length , velocity, ETC. If you have an issue go back to the next velocity accuracy node and test again. This goes for any of our Hunting style bullets that are used for target shooting. Tip: using a 5R style barrel can help with this issue too. Less friction on the bullet jacket.

 

[mysticplayer]

Is there a Berger SKU or product number for this bullet?

Can't seem to find it to order

Jerry

 

[mtang45]

Bryan, here is a question for you. The 180 Hybrid needs at least a .200 freebore (more is better) and the 180 VLD's need at least a .220 freebore, what would you expect as the MINIMUM freebore necessary for the 195's? Thanks..

This is a very interesting thread. Not only am I anxiously awaiting the 195gr pill from Berger but I am also reading bits of information that I have not heard before; such as the question above. Where can I find out more info on "required freebore" as this is contrary Bryan's article describing VLD jump test on the Berger website. Or, is this something totally unrelated?

 

[Kyle Schultz]

Bryan, here is a question for you. The 180 Hybrid needs at least a .200 freebore (more is better) and the 180 VLD's need at least a .220 freebore, what would you expect as the MINIMUM freebore necessary for the 195's? Thanks..

[br]
Ben,
When Bryan first released the bullet drawing, I calculated a .233" freebore would allow sufficient room to jump. My 7-270 WSM reamer is made with that freebore. I'm also interested to see what Bryan has been using or if the bullet has changed.

Not sure the difference is critical, but Bryan recently advised that the OAL length of the 195 EOL is 1.648" versus the 1.637" shown on the bullet drawing originally released. Post #399 in the thread here...

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/berger-introduce-7mm-195-gr-eol-hybrid-hunting-bullet-85792/index57.html

I'm guessing/hoping that once the bullet is released and in production he will provide a final drawing.

 

[mtang45]

Bryan, here is a question for you. The 180 Hybrid needs at least a .200 freebore (more is better) and the 180 VLD's need at least a .220 freebore, what would you expect as the MINIMUM freebore necessary for the 195's? Thanks..

This is a very interesting thread. Not only am I anxiously awaiting the 195gr pill from Berger but I am also reading bits of information that I have not heard before; such as the question above. Where can I find out more info on "required freebore" as this is contrary Bryan's article describing VLD jump test on the Berger website. Or, is this something totally unrelated?

OK, I think I understand. Sometimes I read things wrong and it generates strange questions in my head. This is asking how much freebore is required to seat the longer bullets, NOT how much freebore is required in terms of a jump when seated at standard depth. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[ShootDots]

MTang, I like the freebore to allow the bullet I am using to keep the bearing surface ABOVE the neck / shoulder junction when I might seat them at 30K OFF the lands. OR to at least have the bearing surface in at least 2/3rds of the case neck when it may be seated 15k INTO the lands. Of course as the throat wears down from firing, you will necessarily keep the bullet moving forward in the case neck to keep the same seating depth in relation to the lands.

 

[bsumoba]

anyone looking at this over say a 300WSM?

BC is very similar. I suspect the 300 WSM has more recoil, but a 7RSAUM with the 195gr hybrid would toast a barrel up faster.

 

[Steve Blair]

anyone looking at this over say a 300WSM?

BC is very similar. I suspect the 300 WSM has more recoil, but a 7RSAUM with the 195gr hybrid would toast a barrel up faster.

[br]
A 7-270 WSM shooting 195 Hybrids at ~2970 vs. a .300 WSM shooting 230 hybrids at ~2865 will have 81% of the recoil energy and 89% of the recoil velocity, all else being equal. Both are likely too much for many shooters without considerable effort. The 195 will have ~.25 MOA advantage at 1000 but will be easier to shoot. And yes, it will not be kind to barrels. My .300 WSM gets ~1500 rounds before toast. The 7-270 burns about the same charge in a smaller bore. I would guess somewhere around 1000. [br]
It is worth noting that .284 Win with 180 hybrids has won many matches against cartridge combinations with better ballistics. From .284 Win and up, there are differences but they are not decisive. Worse conditions and longer matches would favor better ballistics but are certainly no guarantee. [br]
That said: ~2780 should be obtainable in .284 Win with 195 hybrids. That will give ~.25 MOA advantage over a .284 Shehane with 180 hybrids, obviously worth the increased recoil while still manageable by most shooters. Always shoot the highest B.C. bullet available in any caliber whose gun handling can be managed. If there is a problem with gun handling, switch to a faster powder, reduce the velocity and retune. B.C will do more for you than velocity.

 

[barefooter56]

mysticplayer,
Part number is 28550 for the 100 count box, 28750 for the 500 count box. Bob Beck at Extreme Outer Limits should have them in stock.

 

[dannyjbiggs]

Bryan, here is a question for you. The 180 Hybrid needs at least a .200 freebore (more is better) and the 180 VLD's need at least a .220 freebore, what would you expect as the MINIMUM freebore necessary for the 195's? Thanks..

This is a very interesting thread. Not only am I anxiously awaiting the 195gr pill from Berger but I am also reading bits of information that I have not heard before; such as the question above. Where can I find out more info on "required freebore" as this is contrary Bryan's article describing VLD jump test on the Berger website. Or, is this something totally unrelated?

FWIW, my .300 WSM wildcat (aka 7mm RSAUM Gooseneck Improved) has a reamer free bore of .251 inches...180 bullet ALL in the long neck, touching the lans. Although I DID NOT need to lengthen the FB for the 195, I ran it out another .039 inches, which is what I measured as the ogive length difference between the 180 and the 195. Again, that's just touching the lans with the 195. And of course, the 180's can still be shot in the modified chamber!

Dan

 

[ShootDots]

Thanks Danny! I appreciate it!