Zero problems

[Bigstick00]

I posted earlier in the wrong forum so I'll try it here. Bought a new savage 112 magnum target rifle and put a burris 3-15x50 veracity scope attached to talley tactical rings and a talley 20 moa pic rail. The rail torqued to 25 in lbs and as were the rings. I lapped the rings, took a few times checking them before I had 100% clean up. Took the rifle to the the range and bore sighted it with the bolt out and without moving the rifle I adjusted the cross hairs to my target. Test fired and ended up being about 20" left and about 10" low. Not satisfied I started over with laser bore sighting it and the rifle shot the same way. So after a box of ammo and maxed out windage I was able to finally zero at 100 yards. My shooting buddy took his vortex scope off his rifle and we put it in my rings to end up with the same result. Ive checked the mount and rings, everything is tight. Possible alignment issues? We're both scratching our heads. Possible issues with the rifle? Any advice?

 

[savagedasher]

Start with the target at 25 yards or less. If you have a back stop where you can see the bullet impact place a target that you can aim at. Shoot a round then put your cross hairs on the targeting a firm rest where the gun can't move then adjust the crosshairs to the impact of the bullet . That will put you close.
Good luck Larry

 

[Bigstick00]

That was done already then moved back to 50 yards.

 

[savagedasher]

That was done already then moved back to 50 yards.

If you have it done dead on at 50yards you should be good to go at 100.
If you cant get dead on at 50 Yards with scope adjustment you have issues with the rings or scope base. The holes in the receiver can also not drilled inline to the bore. Not knowing what bases are rings you have some are adjustable for horizontal. Larry

 

[Bigstick00]

I can't get dead on at 50 yards without running out of windage adjustment. I have talley tactical 30 mm rings. No adjustment on these rings.

 

[hogpatrol]

I use these:

http://www.burrisoptics.com/signature-rings

and these:

http://www.burrisoptics.com/mounting-systems/mounts-and-bases/trumount-universal-bases

and have never had a problem running out of windage or elevation.

Use them on my heaviest recoiling rifles and no issues with movement.

 

[eric32]

i would switch to the signature zee rings rings, they are coming out with some 6 screw tactical ones which should be a hit.

But it sounds like you might have gone a little over board with the lapping of the rings and might have off centered something.

OR your base might be misaligned which in that case might need to be corrected by a smith

OR replace it with a two piece base and the signature zee rings and you will be able to manually center the scope then use internal adjustments of said scope for a zero

 

[Bigstick00]

thanks for all the help guys. I will update this post when I get the problem figured out and what I did for a solution!

 

[mobertok]

Did you start out with the scope adjusted in the middle of it's adjustments?

 

[Bigstick00]

Yes the cross hairs were mechanically centered by dividing the full range of adjustment in half!

 

[nmkid]

You state you did a 100% clean up while lapping. A friend in Wyo. once did a 100% clean up as in, completely removing the bluing from top/bottom rings. He turned a sweet shooting 300 mag into the rifle from h**l. Then we discovered his scope was loose no matter how much torque was applied to the screws.

 

[Bigstick00]

I have plent of gap in between the rings to torque them. Believe me when I tell you the scope does not move. Im sure it's an alignment issue, or the rifle itself!

 

[RW]

I have had the same exact problem as you discribe with a Rem 700 I sent it off to a smith and had the holes redrilled to 8x40 screws and then used the burris rings and it fixed the problem. I think from now on when I have an action trued up I will also have the screws holes enlarged and alighned to the larger screw holes. Ron

 

[StevenDzupin]

I'd suggest you start over from scratch.

Remove the scope ,rings and bases.

Use a 18 to 24 inch straight edge across the screw holes.

Check for misalignment by eye down the barrel.


Burris rings with offset inserts will work to solve a lot of problems.

Just remember to degrease the rings and inserts.

Also use the Burris recommended screw torques ,there a bit higher that for other rings.


Mechanical centering does not always equal optical centering.

Use a mirror and flashlight to check for optical centering.

Receiver thread to barrel ID could be off, as well as a crooked barrel.


Start with the basics and be methodical, no shotgun fixes.

Regards,

Steve

 

[Bigstick00]

I'm a machinist and don't do shotgun fixes, I'm kind of anal lol! As far as I can tell, everything on the rifle is in line. The only thing I haven't done yet is turn the rings around. Could be as simple as that. I believe with the talley rings there is some offset!

 

[DonnyJ]

^^^^
All good advice!
That scope only has 40 MOA of wind. You would think that would be enough!
I've used the Zee rings and never had an issue.
Another option would be Leopold Rings. I personally dislike Leopold ring setup, however if your mount holes are off, you can use the Leopold rings to help with your windage problem.
Start with a mechcanical zero on your scope and use the screws on the rear mount to adjust your windage and then fine tune with the windage knob.

 

[Bigstick00]

I will have it figured today guys, I hate to say it but I think the rings are attached to the base wrong, I believe the bolts that clamp the ring to the pic rail have to be on the ejection port side. I'll see what happens when I try that set up.

 

[savagedasher]

I'm a machinist and don't do shotgun fixes, I'm kind of anal lol! As far as I can tell, everything on the rifle is in line. The only thing I haven't done yet is turn the rings around. Could be as simple as that. I believe with the talley rings there is some offset!

If your a Machinists a straight edge will tell you every thing. Start with the screw alignment if that is straight down the bore. Keep adding pieces and check. Your going to find something you add is going to be misaligned. That is if your dealing with right to left adjustments. Larry

 

[Bigstick00]

Ok so just a quick update, I have made no progress! I pulled the bolt out and put a square up against the face of the action and laid it beside the mount holes on top of the action. The mount holes are in line. Next I mounted the rail and again laid the square against the face of the action and the straight edge along the rail and that was straight. So up to this point I can rule out the rifle itself and the 20 moa rail. I turned the rings around and put them back on the rail and snugged them up without the caps. I laid the scope in the rings and shined a light from one side to see if I could see any light from the other side and I did not. I did the same with the other ring and the same result. So my next option tomorrow is to put the rail in my milling vise with the rings clamped to it and check them with an indicator to see if they are truly in line with one another. So as of right now I'm still dumbfounded!

 

[BoydAllen]

A friend with a lathe has made a round bar that is long enough to reach the ends of his barrels. He uses it to do a preliminary alignment of the rings and bases. Base screw holes have some slop in them and without some kind of reference you can end up tightening them in a position on the receiver that will cause a scope alignment problem. I have a Savage 110 that is so far out that I had to use signature Z rings with .020 offset inserts in both, turned opposite each other, so that the scope was pointed close to target center with its adjustments centered. I like the signature rings because you can do a lot with the inserts. A friend scoffed at the fact that their inserts are plastic, until I showed him a picture of the rifle that shot the current, and likely to be permanent IBS 600 yard five shot record. I am always amused at the sight of massive "tacticool" scope rings. How many of you have had a ring failure due to lack of material strength or inadequate design? I never have, but if I were to look for a potential problem it would be with the #6 screws that hold the base to the receiver, not the rings.