Your Lil Gun in 221 Fireball in a 1-14 barrel??

[VaniB]

I'd like to hear from you guys that shoot the Fireball with LiL Gun in1-14 barrels. I wish my barrel was 1-12, but my used LVSF came in a 1-14. My 1-14 shoots 50V Max in large 1" groups, and so twist matters.

I handloaded 1/2" - 5/8" 5 shot clusters in my 1-14 twist Rem LVSF 22" barrel with Lapua & US made RL7 & WSR primers. l ran out of the old US stuff, and the replacement Swedish RL7 shoots poorly. If I have to start testing all over again, I'd rather try another powder. I have 2 boxes of 40 VMax, & the consensus in the archives is that Lil Gun is very accurate with it. One particular photo of a 5 shot 1/4" cluster really impressed me, but the guy didn't mention barrel twist. I'm a target guy (I don't hunt) and so if I can't shoot 1/2" 5 shot groups, I'm not happy.

 

[Iowa Fox]

I don't think the 1-12 twist is your problem

 

[SmokinJoe]

With the 40 gr bullets: Lil'Gun 15 on up to 16 grains and AA1680 up around 20 grains max, also CFE BLK is similar and worth a try. All of these will get you in the 3500 - 3600 fps area. All of these are top loads in my rifles so start a couple grains lower and work up to your comfort zone.

 

[VaniB]

I don't think the 1-12 twist is your problem

What problem? I simply mentioned that I'd have preferred a barrel in a 1-12 twist which I believe would stabilize heavier 50 grain bullets at 100 yards better then my 1-14 can do. No problem with my 1-14 twist putting 40 Vmax into 1/2" 5 shot groups.....so I'll just stick with the 40's.

 

[grovey]

I'd be looking at H4198 or H322 for it's temp stability, rather than the lil gun chasing velocity unless your trying to pep it up a bit for hunting purposes. My, and my buddy's 700LS in .221 FB both shoot the 50 gr zmax very well. The Zmax is the same as the Vmax, so as Iowa Fox said needing a 12 twist isn't the issue. I shot a .110 3 shot group with the Zmax in my gun in competition, and a 5 gallon bucket full of 1/4" groups, so I know the bullet works well in these guns.
I found a load with the RL7 /Zmax combo for my friend back when I first tried it in my gun, and later when he started reloading he experimented some with other powders, but soon came back to the load I found rather than do the foot work with the IMO much better H powders.

 

[jwing]

A 1-14 is perfect for bulletsup to 55gr.
I have 2 rifles.
Rem load is 14.5 lil gun 55 b tip 3000fps
Custom win, 16.0 lit gun 40 b tip, 3600fps
Both guns are sub 1/4

221 if one of my fav caliber

 

[Evan]

If you're after tip top accuracy, I'd step over to the 52/53gn flat base match bullets from Sierra, Berger, or a custom. IMR 4198 is a classic choice. H4198 and Ramshot xterminator are good powders too.

 

[VaniB]

Thanks guys for all the input.

I did buy Lil Gun powder yesterday. The Hodgedon website recommends 14.5 to 16 grains with the 40gr bullets and Rem 71/2 primers which I intend to continue using The sweetspot is indicated to be 15 grains, up or down, to start with.
The distinct disadvantage is that this is not a custom barrel I'm working with. I don't have issues with my 3 custom barreled 700's. It's a light 22" fluted factory varmint barrel. While I am able to put 3 shot's into 1/4" or less at times, trying to get 5 shots is impossibe. It's NOT in the cards that this factory barrel is consistent for better then 1/2"-5/8 MOA. I use 3 wind flags and a hart rest with a sinclair top, and let the barrel cool after 5 shots. Cartridge prep, loading, & notes are meticulous. It takes me about an hour to load 10 cartridges with already very prepared cases.

I was satisfied with the 1/2" to 5/8" clusters I was getting with the American RL7 , but then opened a can of Sweden Powder. Groups opened instantly to 1.25"!! I should NOT have started testing with a half full can of old powder I had. A full can of LilGun should last me a lifetime after I burn only about 1/3 of it developing new loads.

 

[Evan]

Cartridge prep, loading, & notes are meticulous. It takes me about an hour to load 10 cartridges with already very prepared cases.

This makes me very curious what you're doing that takes so long! I manage 50 an hour.

 

[VaniB]

This makes me very curious what you're doing that takes so long! I manage 50 an hour.

Starting with cases that are annealed and sized already;

1) I start with reading my notes to see what my next test load will be. I proceed with putting the designated primer into the case and adjusting the seater die length for that bullet.

2) Rotate the sized case on one of two Sinclair run-out gages. I make sure runout is less then .002". If it's over .002", I discard it and reach for another case.

3) Individually weigh each charge on a beam scale, adjust by adding or removing 2,3, or 4 individual kernels of powder.

4) Seat the bullet and check final OAL of cartridge.

5) Then check run-out on my other Sinclair gage. If run-out is excessive I take the cartridge apart and do over.



Top photo is group fired with USA made RL7 powder.

Bottom photo is group fired with new can of Swedish RL7 powder.

 

[VaniB]

Ooops. Duplicate post.

 

[AlNyhus]

Both groups exhibit the same horizontal characteristics, albeit one measures larger. If it was here on my work bench, the bedding would get investigated and corrected before doing anything else.

Just sayin'.... -Al

 

[VaniB]

Thanks Al,
This is a used Rem barreled action I put in an HS Stock. The 22" barrel is a light fluted sporter contour. Perhaps the 5-shot dime sized group is as good as I can reasonably expect. This barreled action is slated for an old 1967 Remington BDL 700 Fleur-De-Lise stock for sentimental purposes. (had an old 700BDL 47 years ago as a kid) I'll try my new LilGun powder and see if I can get those 1/2" -5/8" groups back. If I can shoot that "horizontal" dime sized group from an old 1967 Rem700 wood rifle, it will be a fun day at the range.... especially if folks walk up to want to see what I'm shooting. LOL. Yes, that 1967 BDL rifle will be bedded. Thanks again.

 

[luckyshot52]

From my experience, you need to try some pressure on the barrel. For some reason the light fluted barrel profile does best with some forend tip pressure.