Ye' Ol' Carbon Ring

[ar15topgun]

I read an article one time where this guy took an old aluminum arrow shaft that was the same diameter of the neck area in his chamber. He used a hack saw to cut tiny teeth on the end of the shaft to act as a cuter for the removal of the carbon ring when the shaft was turned by hand. Since he was using aluminum there was no danger of damaging his chamber but was effective in removing the carbon ring. Worth a try.

 

[lpreddick]

i have seen this "stain" in my guns that had well established carbon rings(many years) that i got out after a lot of work and a lot of jb. agree it is harmless. now that i get this carbon out after each session, i don't see the "stain".

 

[Patch700]

I'd have to say that if any barrel suppliers are reading any of this stuff they'd be smiling from ear to ear lol..

 

[fdshuster]

Patch700: I think most agree that barrels are expendable, no different than primers, bullets and powder.

And their replacement cost must be added to the cost of the other expendables to get the true cost per shot fired. But, the payoff is having a nice rifle re-barreled, and it's like getting a new rifle.

 

[22BRGUY]

Just thinking out loud here but wondering what you guys would think of the idea of taking say a 6" to 12" piece of 1/2" wide aluminum flat stock and narrowing it down on 1 end to just slightly less than the chamber neck diameter and squareing it off on the end and using it as a carbon ring scraper so to speak. Of course only using it by hand and inserting the squared off end into the chamber/neck until it stops and then rotating it with a slight pushing pressure so it would scrape the carbon ring out up to the "lip" area of the chamber/bore transition.
Thoughts and criticisms welcome.

 

[CatShooter]

Just thinking out loud here but wondering what you guys would think of the idea of taking say a 6" to 12" piece of 1/2" wide aluminum flat stock and narrowing it down on 1 end to just slightly less than the chamber neck diameter and squareing it off on the end and using it as a carbon ring scraper so to speak. Of course only using it by hand and inserting the squared off end into the chamber/neck until it stops and then rotating it with a slight pushing pressure so it would scrape the carbon ring out up to the "lip" area of the chamber/bore transition.
Thoughts and criticisms welcome.

BRGuy...

That would probably work, but spinning a bronze brush on a brass cleaning rod with a 1/4" B&D is sooooo easy, and we all get beat-up brushes we have no other use for.

 

[22BRGUY]

Just thinking out loud here but wondering what you guys would think of the idea of taking say a 6" to 12" piece of 1/2" wide aluminum flat stock and narrowing it down on 1 end to just slightly less than the chamber neck diameter and squareing it off on the end and using it as a carbon ring scraper so to speak. Of course only using it by hand and inserting the squared off end into the chamber/neck until it stops and then rotating it with a slight pushing pressure so it would scrape the carbon ring out up to the "lip" area of the chamber/bore transition.
Thoughts and criticisms welcome.

BRGuy...

That would probably work, but spinning a bronze brush on a brass cleaning rod with a 1/4" B&D is sooooo easy, and we all get beat-up brushes we have no other use for.

Point well taken Cat.

 

[FergusBailey]

just a little clarification...the ring is ENTIRELY in the chamber, not from the "case mouth to the beginning of the lands". working a brush "in the throat area" doesn't do it either. if you can look at tony boyer's book, he has a diagram of the chamber and the ring. he also shows his method of using an undersized bronze brush and spins it in the last few mm of the chamber. the length of the ring can be determined by measuring the chamber length (sinclair's chamber length gauges) then subtract the length of the case. my shortest is .010 and longest is .024. the longer ring takes longer to remove. if done after each session, the effort is less.

I don't know what you are looking at, but the carbon ring is not "ENTIRELY in the chamber". The carbon ring is a function of the case burning powder, with a ring shaped deposit building up immediately in front of the case mouth, in the chamber throat ahead of the lands. The diagram on page 156 of Boyers book shows exactly this.

Many of the questions in this thread about using various tools to remove the carbon ring are overkill in my opinion. A number of Hall of Fame BR competitors have advised me to spin the bronze brush in the barrel throat as a part of my cleaning regimen each time I clean the barrel, and this works fine for me in keeping the ring under control. I have verified this with my bore scope, and from results in matches.

Also, it is important to recognise that there are a number of variables in how the carbon ring forms. For example some powders seem more prone to these deposits than others - Vit 133 commonly used with the 6PPC seems to very actively form a ring, though other powders may not do so to the same extent. I believe this is why some commenting on this thread are observing differing results, as different powder/cartridge combinations can vary the results.

 

[Syncrowave]

I read an article one time where this guy took an old aluminum arrow shaft that was the same diameter of the neck area in his chamber. He used a hack saw to cut tiny teeth on the end of the shaft to act as a cuter for the removal of the carbon ring when the shaft was turned by hand. Since he was using aluminum there was no danger of damaging his chamber but was effective in removing the carbon ring. Worth a try.

Just thinking out loud here but wondering what you guys would think of the idea of taking say a 6" to 12" piece of 1/2" wide aluminum flat stock and narrowing it down on 1 end to just slightly less than the chamber neck diameter and squareing it off on the end and using it as a carbon ring scraper so to speak. Of course only using it by hand and inserting the squared off end into the chamber/neck until it stops and then rotating it with a slight pushing pressure so it would scrape the carbon ring out up to the "lip" area of the chamber/bore transition.
Thoughts and criticisms welcome.

I think I'd shy away from aluminum. Almost immediately after being machined or sanded, aluminum develops a layer of protective oxidation -- aluminum oxide, which is used to make sandpaper and grinding disks -- which is harder than steel and could scratch your chamber/throat, or so I would think. If I were to try scraping, I think I'd use something that I KNEW was softer than the barrel steel...brass, maybe, or hard wood or plastic possibly.

Yeah, I know, the abrasives in JB and Losso are harder than steel, too -- but those particles are a lot smaller than what you might get on a toothed arrow shaft or the corners of a piece of flat bar aluminum.


Just my 2¢ ...

 

[fayettefatts]

No body has any experience with the empty case neck belled out to manually remove the ring?

I did this for a 6BR.

Run a 223 case in a 6BR die to expand neck to 6mm and push shoulder back to create a really long neck. Then drill and tap the primer pocket 8x32 (or whatever size you need) to fit a cleaning rod. Bell mouth slightly and insert in chamber. Works like arrow shaft mentioned.

Spinning brush works well too.

 

[sigma2chi]

No body has any experience with the empty case neck belled out to manually remove the ring?

I did this for a 6BR.

Run a 223 case in a 6BR die to expand neck to 6mm and push shoulder back to create a really long neck. Then drill and tap the primer pocket 8x32 (or whatever size you need) to fit a cleaning rod. Bell mouth slightly and insert in chamber. Works like arrow shaft mentioned.

Spinning brush works well too.

I think I'm gonna try this with the next case I size that ends up being too long and needs trimming.

 

[swampshooter]

if you have an aversion to twisting a bronze brush (yes, slightly OVERSIZED) hoppes sell a very stiff nylon type brush call "tenex". they are reddish and are mistaked for bronze. putting a small dab of jb/kroil on the tip one can feel the brush as it enters the neck portion of the chamber. b&d spin to get rid of an established ring then hand twist to remove fresh rings. a squirt of your favorite solvent at the end of shooting while the barrel is warm may hasten the rings removal.
____________________________________________________________________
Swampshooter writes;
I'm needing to go to work on the carbon ring on my 284. The above struck me as the first thing I should try. Only problem is that I don't know what a "b&d spin" is. What does your abbreviation "b&d" stand for?

 

[Syncrowave]

I think "B&D spin" means "put your cleaning rod into a Black and Decker drill and spin it," although a Makita or (in a pinch) DeWalt may also work.

 

[swampshooter]

That's what I assumed also, but you know what they say about assumptions. Make *** u me.

 

[lpreddick]

b&d is black and decker, sorry for the confusion. had an experience recently that caught my attention. my 22 BR shot a little funny, so i gave her a complete cleaning...so i thought. i felt a slight roughness at the very beginning of the bore...much like i felt when my 22-250 started showing firecracking of the lands. OH NO! not in my 22 BR with less than 500 rounds! i ran a little jb bore brite and no better. out came the borescope and there it was! the freebore was black! i thought my borescope was dirty but after clening the lenses, the black was still there. jb/kroil and the tynex(correct spelling) spun in the forward end of the chamber and into the bore. wiped clean and borescoped...shiney as a new dime! i had baked on carbon deposits that weren't coming out with the usual cleaning. a patch slid like greased lightening. multiple one way passes with a bronze brush would probably have worked, but the carbon was localized and was gone in just a few seconds.