yards to do load development

[RegionRat]

At what yardage do you guys do your load development ? This would be for 223

I'm not going to disagree with the forum, but I will give my perspective anyway.

There often isn't one distance used to do load development work, unless the shooting will only be done at one short range. If your shooting will never go past 100 yards, then there is nothing wrong with working at 100 yards.

But what if you plan to use this 223 for 600 yards?

You may start at 100 or 200 yards, but depending on the type of shooting you are planning, you will end up doing load development testing at more than one distance before you are all sorted out.

For example, if I am doing a load that will be used at 600 yards, I may start at short range, but then go to 300 and then 600 before I call it done.

You can sort out some early testing at short range to exploit the protection against the wind, but eventually you end up working out at the distance that counts.

So, my answer would always depend on the end game and the farther the end game the more distances I may use to get there. YMMV

 

[Varminterror]

For LR load development, I shoot longer range. Like Jim mentioned, I use proven POI based methods which need more than 100yrds to let the separation become more obvious. I prefer 600yrds, but use at least 300yrds. I generally use the Newberry OCW method with multiple targets rather than a single POA as the Audette method, but only because I’m too lazy to color bullets to distinguish points of impact. When I have found myself limited to only 100yrds for development, I shoot an OCW array, but use the Audette/Satterlee velocity curve to highlight the results (as described in the aged Cortina article/thread), since the mechanical influence on 100yrd groups outweighs the inherent vertical dispersion.

 

[Dgd6mm]

I'm not going to disagree with the forum, but I will give my perspective anyway.

There often isn't one distance used to do load development work, unless the shooting will only be done at one short range. If your shooting will never go past 100 yards, then there is nothing wrong with working at 100 yards.

But what if you plan to use this 223 for 600 yards?

You may start at 100 or 200 yards, but depending on the type of shooting you are planning, you will end up doing load development testing at more than one distance before you are all sorted out.

For example, if I am doing a load that will be used at 600 yards, I may start at short range, but then go to 300 and then 600 before I call it done.

You can sort out some early testing at short range to exploit the protection against the wind, but eventually you end up working out at the distance that counts.

So, my answer would always depend on the end game and the farther the end game the more distances I may use to get there. YMMV

^^^^^^^

 

[Bottom Fodder]

I shoot competition out to 1k and all my load work is done at a 100 yards and I confirm sight settings out 300 mainly because 300 is the longest I have access on a regular basis and I’m fine with that

 

[rmeyerwy]

I am lucky to have a club with a 100 yard indoor range, so i dont have to worry about wind and etc.. I work my loads up and check with chrono, check grouping and velocity, I dont usually go to max, seem to be most times around 1 grain under, then I work the seating depth to try and tighten group up. Once that is done, recheck with chrono and work out my dope. My main goal is varminting, but with that my longest is hit on a pd is 543, with a good run in the 450 to 500, I figure if I can hit one at that range, my load dev work is good enough for me. I do agree, if it dont shoot at 100 it aint gonna get any better...but I have also found most rifles are capable of outshooting the nut behind it.

 

[6Creed73]

What type of short range testing format do you use for choosing things like neck bushings or primers that lead to one thousand yard performance increases or declines ?
Another way of asking this is, how can you tell what change will be optimum at 1k when testing at 100 ?

I my experience, it's very rare that I have to change anything like that. Especially not a neck bushing or primer. At most I play with seating depth when I move from 100 to further distances. At 100 yards, I'm looking for sub 1/2 moa, single digit SD, and an ES below 25. If I can achieve that, my experience says it will be ok further out.

With that said, I don't shoot benchrest so I'm not looking for small groups at 1000 yards. I shoot steel where all I need to do is hit it. When it comes to PRS vs benchrest, I'm sure there are big differences in load development practices.

 

[GetReal]

Typically, after sighting in, I'll use 100 yds for load dev. (16x or higher power scope)

Howver, recently, with an 1-8x LPVO as the optic I'll use on the rifle, I've changed to 50 yds. That way I'm seeing what the load CAN do, not what I / the optic cannot do.

 

[Fairchaser]

Never seen a better group at 500 yds. than the group at 100 yds. The bullet does not magically correct itself after 100 yds.

I think PC could account for a better group at distance. The bullet could also stabilize at some distance beyond what makes for a good group at 100 yards. But I would like others opinions. I think if you could shoot through a 100 yd target, you might find a smaller MOA at longer distances. Possible?

 

[6Creed73]

I was actually asking him about his testing format, but I can ask you that also.
Are you mainly tuning by chronograph or 100 yard targets first and then comparing data ?

I might be doing things wrong cause my 100 yard tune would fall apart like a cheap suit at long range.

Sorry, I knew you were asking him. Just thought I'd give my experience as well.

I typically do both chrono and group analysis at the same time. I do this because I will tune the seating depth while at the range and I want to be able to see how the seating depth changes both the target and the chrono data. I start with 5 shot groups per charge. Once I get the charge and seating depth where I think is good, I'll shoot 20 rounds through the chrono to get more realistic ES/SD.

 

[Bill Norris]

A more correct statement might be that it is common for shooters to claim that their large caliber rifles shoot better at long range than they do at 100 yd. Attempts to verify or prove that behavior and to precisely explain the mechanism by which it occurs are usually less than satisfying.

https://appliedballisticsllc.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Epicyclic-Swerve.pdf

I agree 100%. I believe your statement represents real shooting world experience.

 

[David Milisock]

Everything starts at 100 yards, varmint cartridges are worked hard at 100 to 300. I hunt wind, rain or shine. I test the same way. I find that the best 100 yard load often does not produce the best 300 yard group.

Reduced time of flight in poor conditions I find can produce improvement at effective ranges in poor conditions.

 

[D Coots]

I’ll take a steady 5mph crosswind over calm hanging tails any day personally. Seems that resting flags lie to me.

Me too Greg. But a person better know his range if shooting with no wind. Weird things happen sometimes.

Was shooting a new bbl on my Larson rail at home the other day@100 yds. The flags were half way out, probably 12-15 mph, a bit more than I usually like, but they were steady.

3 shots on the left, 5 on the right. Measured close to the same. The barrel and new batch of bullets may work. Now if I can just find an operator.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Me too Greg. But a person better know his range if shooting with no wind. Weird things happen sometimes.

Was shooting a new bbl on my Larson rail at home the other day@100 yds. The flags were half way out, probably 12-15 mph, a bit more than I usually like, but they were steady.

3 shots on the left, 5 on the right. Measured close to the same. The barrel and new batch of bullets may work. Now if I can just find an operator.

View attachment 1497197

Very nice Dave! I say this on here a lot and I'm sure you know what I'm talking about when I say that doesn't look like wind from a rh twist bbl. If it's still not quite tuned, it's scary to think how well that sucker might shoot. If it doesn't get any better, you're still in pretty tall cotton. Nice!

 

[Schippergreg]

Me too Greg. But a person better know his range if shooting with no wind. Weird things happen sometimes.

Was shooting a new bbl on my Larson rail at home the other day@100 yds. The flags were half way out, probably 12-15 mph, a bit more than I usually like, but they were steady.

3 shots on the left, 5 on the right. Measured close to the same. The barrel and new batch of bullets may work. Now if I can just find an operator.

View attachment 1497197

I’d say those bullets are gonna shoot! Looks like we’re all going to be fighting for 2nd place now.

 

[D Coots]

Very nice Dave! I say this on here a lot and I'm sure you know what I'm talking about when I say that doesn't look like wind from a rh twist bbl. If it's still not quite tuned, it's scary to think how well that sucker might shoot. If it doesn't get any better, you're still in pretty tall cotton. Nice!

Thanks, but church ain't out til the meetings over....................

 

[6Creed73]

Me too Greg. But a person better know his range if shooting with no wind. Weird things happen sometimes.

Was shooting a new bbl on my Larson rail at home the other day@100 yds. The flags were half way out, probably 12-15 mph, a bit more than I usually like, but they were steady.

3 shots on the left, 5 on the right. Measured close to the same. The barrel and new batch of bullets may work. Now if I can just find an operator.

View attachment 1497197

First, damn...nice groups. You BR guys are a different breed.

As for the wind, I'm curious when you say weird things happen with no wind, are you referring to shooting in a boil? If so, I agree with you. Which is why I usually do load development early in the morning or in the evening and typically don't encounter any weirdness.

My problem with developing a load with wind is it usually doesn't cooperate. If I am shooting with wind, I prefer a steady crosswind...not sure anyone would disagree with that. But how often is that the case? Hardly ever for me, at least at my local range. Typically, I get a tail wind, or diagonal right to left from the rear. I can't stand shooting with a tail wind when doing load development...talk about doing weird things.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

First, damn...nice groups. You BR guys are a different breed.

As for the wind, I'm curious when you say weird things happen with no wind, are you referring to shooting in a boil? If so, I agree with you. Which is why I usually do load development early in the morning or in the evening and typically don't encounter any weirdness.

My problem with developing a load with wind is it usually doesn't cooperate. If I am shooting with wind, I prefer a steady crosswind...not sure anyone would disagree with that. But how often is that the case? Hardly ever for me, at least at my local range. Typically, I get a tail wind, or diagonal right to left from the rear. I can't stand shooting with a tail wind when doing load development...talk about doing weird things.

I'm glad you posted this. I'll let Dave respond but will say that much depends on what you're after in regard to precision and what's needed in your discipline. If you're happy tuning for solid .5 moa groups, then shooting as close to dead calm is not likely to give you much grief and sure beats shooting in big wind. But if you're after groups in the zeros and teens, what appears to be dead calm can drive you nuts with unexplained shots. Like I said in another thread, it may well be thermals and some can be tune related. You won't often see that with a .5 moa rifle/load. Not a thing wrong with that rifle and load if it meets your goals for your discipline. As you can see though, wind can be shot and shot well. It almost always tells you something that you don't often get from dead calm. I posted this just a few minutes ago. It's a good tool and a way to read why shots go where they do or should. Check it out if you haven't seen them already.

Wind rose

I post about group shapes on here a fair bit and how I use them to read tune as well as conditions. Many on here are already familiar with these but I haven't seen it posted in quite a while. They are a useful tool. I hear a lot of talk about full value and half value, etc. The reality is that...

forum.accurateshooter.com

 

[6Creed73]

I'm glad you posted this. I'll let Dave respond but will say that much depends on what you're after in regard to precision and what's needed in your discipline. If you're happy tuning for solid .5 moa groups, then shooting as close to dead calm is not likely to give you much grief and sure beats shooting in big wind. But if you're after groups in the zeros and teens, what appears to be dead calm can drive you nuts with unexplained shots. Like I said in another thread, it may well be thermals and some can be tune related. You won't often see that with a .5 moa rifle/load. Not a thing wrong with that rifle and load if it meets your goals for your discipline. As you can see though, wind can be shot and shot well. It almost always tells you something that you don't often get from dead calm. I posted this just a few minutes ago. It's a good tool and a way to read why shots go where they do or should. Check it out if you haven't seen them already.

Wind rose

I post about group shapes on here a fair bit and how I use them to read tune as well as conditions. Many on here are already familiar with these but I haven't seen it posted in quite a while. They are a useful tool. I hear a lot of talk about full value and half value, etc. The reality is that...

forum.accurateshooter.com

Yeah, like I said, you BR guys are a different breed. I'm not going to kill myself trying to shoot zeros and teens because I don't need that in PRS. Under .5 moa and I'm a happy camper, .25 and I'm ecstatic.

I always find the differences between disciplines interesting.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

But also look at my previous post here. Even with those tiny groups, there is info that can be inferred from the groups both having some up and right diagonal. The link shows that.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Yeah, like I said, you BR guys are a different breed. I'm not going to kill myself trying to shoot zeros and teens because I don't need that in PRS. Under .5 moa and I'm a happy camper, .25 and I'm ecstatic.

I always find the differences between disciplines interesting.

Totally understand and yes, we're a different breed but there's good info in the head of someone like Dave, that can help us all.