I'm not doubting you at all but IMO, load development time is maybe the most important time to have flags out. In a match, I can mooch off of the guy next to me...their flags, if I have to. Hey, if it works for you, that's fine with me. Just my logic is different. I do most of my load work at 100, then verify and make any small changes that might rarely be needed, at the yardage I'll be shooting at.
yards to do load development
- Thread starter rebs
- Start date
Schippergreg
Silver $$ Contributor
I’ll take a steady 5mph crosswind over calm hanging tails any day personally. Seems that resting flags lie to me.
I'm not sure why this is so hard to understand. THERE ARE FLAGS OUT, lol.
I use flags during load development, but to make sure there is no wind. I do not want wind during load development. I do not want to have to adjust for wind during load development, then wonder if my load sucks or if my adjustment was off. I want to reduce as many variables as possible while developing a load.
I literally said "I'll wait until the flag is still" in the post you quoted. What part of that statement made you think there are no flags out.
Sorry man. Dang. One more time....If it works for you, it's fine with me. Lol! I agree that I want very light conditions. Like Greg, I prefer a light but steady and honest wind for my shooting vs dead calm. And dead calm rarely happens. I know that because I use flags for that. Weird stuff happens in what looks like dead calm. I assume thermals and such. This is in no way telling you right, wrong or what you should do. There are about 70,000 members here.
I'm not going to knock your preference to have wind when developing a load...if that works for you that's all that matters.
Personally, I prefer to remove as many variables as possible. Adjusting for wind is not going to be precise enough for me to trust during development.
Sorry for the bold caps, lol. Repeating something several times gets frustrating. I never once said I don't USE flags, but for some reason had to keep on establishing that point.
I agree, if developing in wind works for you, great. But I must admit, today is the first time I've ever heard someone say they prefer to shoot in the wind during load development. I just want a more predictable environment.
We're agreeing more than not. It's just experience that tells me a very light and steady wind gives me better results than really dead does. Just enough to make my pinwheels barely turn, all the same from bench to target is what I like best, along with overcast skies too. Clouds and sun induce vertical. Quite a bit actually. You're probably well aware of these things. I'd definitely avoid load work in much wind at all, at least until I have a solid tune established. Then I like to test the load in more real world conditions to see how it holds up in wind. Some loads do seem more wind sensitive than others. It's all good brother. I understand your frustration and didn't mean to cause it for you.
I'll do mine at 100 yds. most of the time to minimize any weather reports. I prefer to do it at 200 yds. (or even greater), but only when the wind is calm.
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I'm fortunate enough to currently have a place in the forest that I start test load development at 100 yards. I shoot early morning during the summer months and later in the day during winter months. About half the time I will place out flags. When I shoot these test the winds is always less than 5 mph, usually 0-3 mph and then it is always on my six or my nose (or within a 10° quarter wind). My goal is .25 MOA loads with 6.5mm in around 140 grain hybrids or VLD's. It works for me.
With that said previous ranges I have used would require 2-3 flags for 100 yards and wait forever sometimes between loads for the wind to settle along the short distance.
Nonetheless, I like to start at 100 yards and use additional distance to confirm what a load is doing till I finally reach maximum distance. Then again, my requires are more relaxed than Benchrest.
With that said previous ranges I have used would require 2-3 flags for 100 yards and wait forever sometimes between loads for the wind to settle along the short distance.
Nonetheless, I like to start at 100 yards and use additional distance to confirm what a load is doing till I finally reach maximum distance. Then again, my requires are more relaxed than Benchrest.
Bronsin
Silver $$ Contributor
I mainly use 100yds to test loads, but shot a 300yd match at the end of the year and really exposed why my loads were inconsistent. The same load that would shoot .129 and .126 at 100yds back to back at the previous match, fired 3 groups that were 3-2 double groups at 300yds. Clearly my loads need work, and shooting farther out showed that. I will be doing more shooting at 300 to fine tune my loading windows from now on.
When you boil it all down developing a load at 100yds is optimizing the rifle/powder combination to either duplicate Point Of Impact over a charge range or looking at tight group size. Either way the end result is the muzzle is pointing at a repeatable location with respect to the point of aim. You minimize the external effects of wind and shooter induced error and minimize the velocity variation effects. When a load doesn't hold up at distance it's an indication that velocity variation is the likely cause. Given a sufficiently stabilized, quality bullet there isn't much else in terms of internal ballistics that can result in an accurate 100yd load "falling apart" at distance.
I've never shot anything bigger than 30 cal. at long range but back years ago when me and a few friends shot water jugs at 1000 yds. I never saw my rifles shoot better at that distance than it would at 100 yds.
You're shooting low 1's at 100yds and 2 grouping at 300yds......couldn't be caused by wind could it....stictly a load problem...huh?
I've found the 2 major causes of errant shots in Benchrest are No.1=shooter error & No.2=wind.....particularly
poor wind flag calls and pulling the trigger at the wrong time.
Good luck and stay safe.
Lou Murdica & Erik Cortina both agree with Bart on "Believe the Target" on this topic.
Bronsin
Silver $$ Contributor
3 different groups about 15 minutes apart, with wind flags out. There wasn't much wind at the time. What are the odds that it would shoot 3 and 2, 3 times in a row where you could just solely blame it on the wind?
100 yards isn't far enough to tell if the load is any good. Grandpa's old thutty thutty will put them all in a hole at 50 yards, but no one will claim it's good at long range.
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Old thread by Eric Cortina.
Long range load development at 100 yards.
I found this target, and I think it's a perfect example of how some people might choose the wrong load because they fell in love with a group without reading the groups properly. This target was shot with my 6.5x47 Lapua and 139 gr. Lapua Scenars with VV N550 powder. At plain sight, 38.5 gr...
forum.accurateshooter.com
Ned Ludd
Silver $$ Contributor
A more correct statement might be that it is common for shooters to claim that their large caliber rifles shoot better at long range than they do at 100 yd. Attempts to verify or prove that behavior and to precisely explain the mechanism by which it occurs are usually less than satisfying.
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