X barrels machine softer than y barrels both 416R

[savagedasher]

True Larry. And the reasons for heat treating produce the same results. Hardening and strengthening. Not softening.

When you heat treat metal Temp time at the temp and cooling process makes metal softer or harder. My first job was working in heat treatment They made starter ring gears. The metal cam in soft enough for coiling and cutting After but welding it was heat treated again after milling it was heat treated again. They then press flat and the teeth were heat treated again Only the last heat treatment was for hardness. The others were all for keeping the metal soft an uniform . Stainless is a different metal and the process is different. If you want to know about metals and the different process Look it up on the inter net under metals ;D ;D ;D Larry

 

[Eddie Harren]

I had a very reputable stainless steel barrel maker tell me that you cannot stress relieve 416 stainless steel by freezing it. What say all you Dr.'s, metal gurus and general know-it-alls say to that?

 

[JRS]

I am well aware of the differences Larry. Working in the trade and industry in which I worked, I witnessed a fair amount of heat treating, and worked with more carbon, chrome moly and different grades of stainless steel than you will likely see in your lifetime.

 

[savagedasher]

I had a very reputable stainless steel barrel maker tell me that you cannot stress relieve 416 stainless steel by freezing it. What say all you Dr.'s, metal gurus and general know-it-alls say to that?

He is correct Larry

 

[JRS]

I had a very reputable stainless steel barrel maker tell me that you cannot stress relieve 416 stainless steel by freezing it. What say all you Dr.'s, metal gurus and general know-it-alls say to that?

That might be a good question for John Krieger, Mr. Harren

Edit: Unless they have recently discontinued using the process, I believe Krieger "freezes" their barrels. I have to believe the good John Krieger wouldn't waste his time employing this method if it wasn't offering something positive to the barrels 8)

 

[JRS]

I had a very reputable stainless steel barrel maker tell me that you cannot stress relieve 416 stainless steel by freezing it. What say all you Dr.'s, metal gurus and general know-it-alls say to that?

Try the link below, Mr. Harren. The names might not be familiar to the younger generation, but were very well respected competitors and at least one, a gunsmith also. The editorial at the bottom is interesting.
The link I posted didn't work. Try this one:

www.cryopro.com/gun.html

 

[Eddie Harren]

Geza Negy was a very well respected shooter and one of my all time favorite writers in the Precision Shooting magazine. Dr. JRS, in typical fashion your reply does not, nor does the link, address the subject of my question. Does cryo-genic treatment stress relieve 426 stainless barrels? Krieger has always frozen barrels Larry but, is it for the purpose of stress relieving?

 

[JRS]

I cannot personally answer the question Mr. Harren. That is the reason I provided the link. The article begins with a statement that states it relieves stresses in the barrel. The 300 Below website states the same stress relief. In typical fashion, you have either overlooked the statement "relieves stress in firearm barrels" or perhaps ignored it It doesn't refer to stainless steel, nor chrome moly. All barrels exhibit stress. In sum….. I suppose if the process works, it would work equally as well on either material.

I've performed another search for you Mr. Harren ??? 300 below - FAQ: "Does the process help stainless steel barrels as well as Blue (chrome moly)?" "Yes. The Deep Cryogenic Process will relieve the stress in most all types of steel".

 

[savagedasher]

My thought on Cryo treatment is. Parts that have ben harden with heat treating for wear the process is a blessing.
Gun barrels they state they clean better last longer. The only way that can happen the barrel must be harder.
Friend that have had it done didn't see any difference. Larry

 

[Eddie Harren]

Thanks for searching Dr. If you ran a business that froze gun barrels would you state that the process did not stress relieve? I would be interested in what testing is available or, used to prove, or, disprove stress relief. I sent quite a few barrels out to 300 Below back in the 90's when it was the craze. Never got any positive or negative feedback from the customers who paid to have it done. Like many fads in BR it soon faded.

 

[JRS]

Thanks for searching Dr. If you ran a business that froze gun barrels would you state that the process did not stress relieve? I would be interested in what testing is available or, used to prove, or, disprove stress relief. I sent quite a few barrels out to 300 Below back in the 90's when it was the craze. Never got any positive or negative feedback from the customers who paid to have it done. Like many fads in BR it soon faded.

If I had no real way to prove that it would relieve stress, no I would not, nor would I tell people for whom I fabricated custom intercoolers and turbo piping that they could safely slap a turbo on their stock engine containing cast components, which are not designed to withstand a turbo. After re-reading on the Krieger site, John states he believes it provides better machining qualities. He does not address stress relief. While I was at it, I found some of the old articles and photos I have of some of the "old timers". Geza Nagy was using Pac-Nor stainless steel barrels, and also the chrome moly barrels.

 

[savagedasher]

Thanks for searching Dr. If you ran a business that froze gun barrels would you state that the process did not stress relieve? I would be interested in what testing is available or, used to prove, or, disprove stress relief. I sent quite a few barrels out to 300 Below back in the 90's when it was the craze. Never got any positive or negative feedback from the customers who paid to have it done. Like many fads in BR it soon faded.

If I had no real way to prove that it would relieve stress, no I would not, nor would I tell people for whom I fabricated custom intercoolers and turbo piping that they could safely slap a turbo on their stock engine containing cast components, which are not designed to withstand a turbo. After re-reading on the Krieger site, John states he believes it provides better machining qualities. He does not address stress relief. While I was at it, I found some of the old articles and photos I have of some of the "old timers". Geza Nagy was using Pac-Nor stainless steel barrels, and also the chrome moly barrels.

But would tell someone with forged components with 12.5 compression it was ok. Larry

 

[savagedasher]

Cast components would be fine with 8 to 1 compression if the timing and the fuel ratio was right. You cant have it both ways ;D ;D ;D Larry

 

[LHSmith]

Thanks for searching Dr. If you ran a business that froze gun barrels would you state that the process did not stress relieve? I would be interested in what testing is available or, used to prove, or, disprove stress relief. I sent quite a few barrels out to 300 Below back in the 90's when it was the craze. Never got any positive or negative feedback from the customers who paid to have it done. Like many fads in BR it soon faded.

Krieger, Hart, Lilja, and Shilen agree that cryo does nothing to relieve stress in SS.

 

[butchlambert]

Mr Smith is correct. I think Kreiger has discontinued cryo. Check it out 300 below is not true cryo. Why is this always brought up? Search this forum.

 

[Robert]

When buttoning a barrel strain induced martensite can happen. Heat treatment only makes the barrel softer. Mc gown mite not do that. Larry

"Heat treatment only makes the barrel softer". ??? You'll have to explain that one
to me.

Shortgrass,

Annealing and tempering are also heat treatments as well as stress relieving...LOL

Robert

 

[Robert]

Thanks for searching Dr. If you ran a business that froze gun barrels would you state that the process did not stress relieve? I would be interested in what testing is available or, used to prove, or, disprove stress relief. I sent quite a few barrels out to 300 Below back in the 90's when it was the craze. Never got any positive or negative feedback from the customers who paid to have it done. Like many fads in BR it soon faded.

To my knowledge, cryo treatment is used to remove the last traces of Austenite in certain alloys after HT.
Why then cryo an alloy who is already martensitic?

R.

 

[shortgrass]

When buttoning a barrel strain induced martensite can happen. Heat treatment only makes the barrel softer. Mc gown mite not do that. Larry

"Heat treatment only makes the barrel softer". ??? You'll have to explain that one
to me.

Shortgrass,

Annealing and tempering are also heat treatments as well as stress relieving...LOL

Robert

If he ment annealing, he should have said so. "Heat treatment" is a "blanket" that covers wide territory. Be precise. Those who know little or nothing of manufacturing process will certainly stay confused and the mis-information offered up by the net will continue!

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I just let the barrelmakers do what they know needs to be done. If it goofs it up i just wont order their barrels anymore like that one company from germany

 

[Eddie Harren]

If you are "chambering them by the wooden crate full", you've already made your decision as to the barrel maker. Eh?