WW 231 POWDER QUESTION ?

[pirate ammo]

We use 2.9GR. of 231 for pure wad cutters for our pistol meets.

 

[divingin]

I have run comparisons of 452AA against 700X, Bullseye and Red Dot. These were loaded with 200 cast SWC 3.8, 4.0, and 4.2 grains for all powders and were used for chronographing and accuracy. The upshot is 452 is just like Bullseye.

When I got back into shooting (after a 30 year layoff) I was reloading by using up a 12lb keg of 452AA from the 80s (probably had 4 lbs left in it.) It's very close to Bullseye (though I think it burns cleaner, and leaves less unburnt powder.) Wish I could still get that stuff.

 

[joshb]

Can you tell me what you Unique loads are?

Hi Rick: I’m home and dug out my loads. With a 200 grain RN, I used 6.1 grains unique. I found 185 Berry HP load with 5.8 grains titegroup.
My load for 230 grain lead RN is 6 grains Unique.
These loads worked well in my Colt Gold Cup, Sig Nightmare, Glock 41, Sig 220 and Colt Double Eagle. Good luck!

 

[cem]

My oldest Son is visiting and needs to load a couple hundred 45ACP. I have a 1 pound and a 5 pound container of 452AA and it appears to be a very small flake. Had it a long time and have never used it. Any load info? We have 235 grain bullets.
I also have 2 unopened 1 pounders of the 231.

I'm still using up 452 from a quantity bought long for clay birds. A bit of 473 too. Speer #11 is a very good source of 452 or 473 data for a variety of handgun cartridges - bearing in mind that older Speer data may be or may not be higher pressure the 452 data is not pushing any SAMMI limits. Loaddate from Wolfe has lots of older data on the site.

https://loaddata.com/Cartridge/45-ACP-Reloading-Data-Speer-Reloading-Manual-11/1901

I don't know of any 452 data for 235 grain bullets. There may be some and I'd look at Loaddata and then give up figuring it doesn't matter; 230 grain data is close enough IMHO. The 452 powder meters well and burns clean at the lower pressures associated with traditional cartridges with no surprises.

 

[cem]

I have some older ww231 flake powder and the new stuff is a flattened ball powder. Does anyone know when they changed the make-up of this powder? The old stuff from the 1980's smells as good as new powder but it worries me that it could be vastly different from the old. Can someone tell me more about this?

It's not much different but if I cared I'd have no trouble finding data contemporary with the powder following the switch from 230 to 231. I have the now old books and for those who don't Wolfe no longer pays much in royalties to keep Loaddata current but there surely is an abundance of older data that can be computer searched. With the caveat that search terms must be exact with no fuzzy logic searches. It's necessary to try again when there are no results for data that is surely there someplace.

 

[riflewoman]

I don't want to hijack this but It seems you have an answer and have assembled a good group of pistol reloaders. What is 20lbs of Green dot good for?

38 Special, 45 Auto, 9mm Luger, 45 Colt. Ken Waters found 3.0 Gr Green Dot behind a 148 HBWC to be either the most accurate or second most accurate load in 3 out of 4 pistols used for his 38 Wadcutter Pet Loads article.

I never used it much, but if you have 20 pounds if it...You gotta lotta shootin’ to do!

 

[ebb]

Yea I knew it worked for 38 spec, but my great grand children will be using it if that is all its good for. But we have 9s and 45s also. Thanks

 

[Roeder]

My oldest Son is visiting and needs to load a couple hundred 45ACP. I have a 1 pound and a 5 pound container of 452AA and it appears to be a very small flake. Had it a long time and have never used it. Any load info? We have 235 grain bullets.
I also have 2 unopened 1 pounders of the 231.

If my memory serves me correctly, 452AA was replaced by Super Target (WST) and is right next to it on the burn chart. I burned a lot of WST back in the day and used 4.6 grains with 200 Gr LSWC. I have some old Winchester load books and they only show 452AA data for 185 Gr Jacket SWCs but they do show loads of around 4.0 to 4.5 grains WST with 230 Gr jacketed round nose.
I found performance very similar to Bullseye.

 

[biggun2869]

He ended up using the WW231. 5 grains. He test fired a few and settled on that load and loaded 200 rounds to take back to Arkansas with him.
Thanks to all.

My load is 4.4 grains of 231. Its just snappy enough to make a 1911 work with 200 grain SWC

 

[biggun2869]

We use 2.9GR. of 231 for pure wad cutters for our pistol meets.

my stuff wouldn't work at this level

 

[pirate ammo]

my stuff wouldn't work at this level

When your running 158gr HBWC they seat deep in the case,it don't take much powder,therefor 2.9gr.

 

[SkinnerD]

Seeing this thread has been quiet since August, let me add to it. I recently was given an original can of Olin 452 Ball Powder. Wife and I are in a motel on Christmas day after visiting with MIL a couple of hours from home, so a bit of time on my hands. I also, therefor, don't have the powder in front of me.

From memory the can is labeled with a date of manufacture, September 1989. The powder is in very good nick, smell's sweet, flows beautifully. As the original tin had some surface rust that looked like it will eventually hole thru in places, I have moved the powder into an empty clean plastic 2kg powder bottle and clearly labeled it.

FYI, I have considerable prior experience with old powders, Winchester Shotgun and ICI Nobel Shotgun, Pistol and Rifle powders in particular. I have had excellent results from them. I'm not necessarily suggesting this is a wise or safe practice for others, I back my own assessment and care but can't do the same for you sorry.

The original label on this tin is purely Olin's, so before it became Winchester 452 AA. There is no "AA" designation on the Olin's label. It is a large round can probably holding 3 or 5 kg originally. 1.3kg remains which is quite enough to be worthwhile for doing load development. I have pistol calibers that it will be fine for. What really interests me is its origin as the powder designed for the military 5.56×45mm NATO round - if my research is correct.

I have been able to find data for Winchester 452 AA, but nothing for Olin 452. My plan is to use the Winchester data for developing pistol loads in 45 ACP. What I would really like is to find data for loading 223. My rifle is a Ruger Ranch Gen II, 16" barrel and 1:8 twist. I have projectiles in weights of 55, 62, 69 and 75gn

I would welcome comments from anyone familiar with the Olin 452 powder, and of course, any available data.

cheers


PS. I'm not sure who would have the heart attack, me or the lemon tree, if I just dumped 1.3kg of sweet powder lol.

 

[PopCharlie]

I loaded 5.7 231 behind a 200 gn lead SWC for years.

I've shot the same load in my stainless Colt 1911 since 1985.
PopCharlie

 

[riflewoman]

Seeing this thread has been quiet since August, let me add to it. I recently was given an original can of Olin 452 Ball Powder. Wife and I are in a motel on Christmas day after visiting with MIL a couple of hours from home, so a bit of time on my hands. I also, therefor, don't have the powder in front of me.

From memory the can is labeled with a date of manufacture, September 1989. The powder is in very good nick, smell's sweet, flows beautifully. As the original tin had some surface rust that looked like it will eventually hole thru in places, I have moved the powder into an empty clean plastic 2kg powder bottle and clearly labeled it.

FYI, I have considerable prior experience with old powders, Winchester Shotgun and ICI Nobel Shotgun, Pistol and Rifle powders in particular. I have had excellent results from them. I'm not necessarily suggesting this is a wise or safe practice for others, I back my own assessment and care but can't do the same for you sorry.

The original label on this tin is purely Olin's, so before it became Winchester 452 AA. There is no "AA" designation on the Olin's label. It is a large round can probably holding 3 or 5 kg originally. 1.3kg remains which is quite enough to be worthwhile for doing load development. I have pistol calibers that it will be fine for. What really interests me is its origin as the powder designed for the military 5.56×45mm NATO round - if my research is correct.

I have been able to find data for Winchester 452 AA, but nothing for Olin 452. My plan is to use the Winchester data for developing pistol loads in 45 ACP. What I would really like is to find data for loading 223. My rifle is a Ruger Ranch Gen II, 16" barrel and 1:8 twist. I have projectiles in weights of 55, 62, 69 and 75gn

I would welcome comments from anyone familiar with the Olin 452 powder, and of course, any available data.

cheers


PS. I'm not sure who would have the heart attack, me or the lemon tree, if I just dumped 1.3kg of sweet powder lol.

There WAS another “452” powder from Olin called “452 LS”. I presume the “LS” meant “Light Shotgun” but I don’t really know. The LS variety came in a yellow labeled can. AS I UNDERSTAND IT, the major difference between the “LS” variety and the “AA” variety was the elimination of Calcium Carbonate when OLIN dropped that component in the early 1970s from their ball powder. They are very close in burn rate.

NEITHER ARE SUITABLE FOR 223.

 

[centershot]

We use 2.9GR. of 231 for pure wad cutters for our pistol meets.

For .38 Special?

 

[pirate ammo]

For .38 Special?

Yep, 38 special 148GR. hollow base wadcutters.