I know the rule for a board UNDER your bipod for F T/R is no more than 2in wider than the bipod and no more than 12 in long (from front to back), but I am wondering if it would be legal to attach a 1x1x 18" piece of wood to my shooting mat so that I can push the feet of my bipod foreward into it andconsistantly preload my bipod. I use a Sinclair tactical bipod with rubber feet. This bipod need to be preloaded to track well. Thanks for the help!
Would this be legal in F T/R
- Thread starter mao0720
- Start date
memilanuk
Gold $$ Contributor
FYI... there might be some who would question it as a 'return-to-battery' type of arrangement. Personally, I don't see it as being materially different than when an F/Open shooter uses a fore-end stop on their front rest. Some people simply use it as a reference point to butt up against to make sure the rifle is positioned the same every shot, while others may 'pin' the rifle by physically shouldering the gun up against it. So long as your 'rail' doesn't do more than that, I think you'd have some legitimate grounds for arguing your case. See section 22 rule 3.4.1(b) (F-TR Rests) and consider whether it would be worth the hassle.
What I was thinking of originally was back in 2008 during the FCNC @ Lodi, WI there was a fellow with a 1x2 riveted to the front flap of his shooting mat... with a rabbeted lip on the board and special feet on the bipod designed to 'hook' under that lip, giving him the ability to totally trap the rifle to the ground mat, which he was laying on. To say it controlled the rifle recoil and hop to a considerable amount would be an understatement. Most people looking at had the initial reaction of "That's illegal!" but when pressed for reasons why, most people kind of sputtered to a halt. The best argument presented was probably that since the weight of the rifle is usually interpreted as including every thing attached to the rifle when lifted straight up from the ground... the fact that the lip of the board captured those special feet would cause the mat, and everything on *it* to be lifted as well... I think you can see where that would quickly cause some issues.
What I was thinking of originally was back in 2008 during the FCNC @ Lodi, WI there was a fellow with a 1x2 riveted to the front flap of his shooting mat... with a rabbeted lip on the board and special feet on the bipod designed to 'hook' under that lip, giving him the ability to totally trap the rifle to the ground mat, which he was laying on. To say it controlled the rifle recoil and hop to a considerable amount would be an understatement. Most people looking at had the initial reaction of "That's illegal!" but when pressed for reasons why, most people kind of sputtered to a halt. The best argument presented was probably that since the weight of the rifle is usually interpreted as including every thing attached to the rifle when lifted straight up from the ground... the fact that the lip of the board captured those special feet would cause the mat, and everything on *it* to be lifted as well... I think you can see where that would quickly cause some issues.
Yeah, I get where you are coming from. I am thinking of using just a straight rectangle of wood, no lips, no hooks, nothing else. I dont see how it could be construed as a return to battery since the bipod is not attached to the board and the rear bag still is a sperarate and loose piece of equipment.
I think the consensus has been that if the rifle doesnt attach or lock into it and it doesnt come off the ground when you pick up the rifle, then it should be legal. By the way, stapled a 1x118in board to the front of my shooting mat (which is a Vietnam Era paratroopers pack that folds out into a shooting mat... Super awesome!) and it works great! I can preload my bipod hard now, I just need to get more consistent with the pressure, I noticed about 1/2 to 3/4 moa difference depending on how hard my preload was.
DennisH
Life Time NRA member
I personally was busted for doing this. As per F/TR rules, you cannot pre-load your bi-pod in any way. It must sit on the ground or mat freely. You cannot put the bi-pod into anything and pre-load.
Our F/TR match are monitored for this and we will be put in the open class anytime we are pre-loading our bi-pods in any way.
Dennis
NO, it's not legal. Nor is pushing your bi-pod into anything legal.
Broncman, you might want to reread the new rule change on boards for F/TR. The 24"x12"x1/2" dimension you mention is the max size for a board. The 2" wider than the bipod rule still applies. So what they are saying is that your bipod can be no wider than 22". So, if your bipod is 15" wide, you are limited to a 17"x12"x1/2" board.
The rules appear to be interpretated a little different at different places. Not saw any rules that state how wide your bipod can be, just the board under it!
The more I shoot, the more my technique evolves. I watched Dale Carpenter shoot fantastic scores at Oakridge with nothing under his bipod but the thin flap on his mat, and the rear bag on the ground itself. So, a board is not a must for great scores. I SURE dont think one gave any advantages over him!
IMO preloading the bipod is not in the rules, as that is not a mechanical way of returning to point of aim. But I am not a match director either. I beleive as long as everyone at the same match have to follow the same rules, it is a level playing field. Keeping the rules the same everywhere helps even further, so no one has to change their technique.
Ken
The more I shoot, the more my technique evolves. I watched Dale Carpenter shoot fantastic scores at Oakridge with nothing under his bipod but the thin flap on his mat, and the rear bag on the ground itself. So, a board is not a must for great scores. I SURE dont think one gave any advantages over him!
IMO preloading the bipod is not in the rules, as that is not a mechanical way of returning to point of aim. But I am not a match director either. I beleive as long as everyone at the same match have to follow the same rules, it is a level playing field. Keeping the rules the same everywhere helps even further, so no one has to change their technique.
Ken
effendude
Gold $$ Contributor
memilanuk said:
As a F/TR shooter and a match director, I have never heard or read that either. I don't know how anyone could enforce a "no pre-loading" rule. The bipod strap on a mat or a board to hook under or against might raise an issue depending on the rule interpretation. I suggest you work on your position more and don't use the board or strap to push against.
Scott
DennisH
Life Time NRA member
I think the bottom rule was asked and clarified.
3.4.1b
F-Class Target Rifle (F-TR) Rests - A bipod and/or sling are the only allowed front supports for the F-TR
rifle. The rifle may be supported by a bipod and/or sling and a rear support which provide no positive
mechanical method for returning it to its precise point of aim for the prior shot.
Mechanical Method was defined as a stop of any type.
Still checking . . .
3.4.1b
F-Class Target Rifle (F-TR) Rests - A bipod and/or sling are the only allowed front supports for the F-TR
rifle. The rifle may be supported by a bipod and/or sling and a rear support which provide no positive
mechanical method for returning it to its precise point of aim for the prior shot.
Mechanical Method was defined as a stop of any type.
Still checking . . .
RStewart
FTR and FPR Competitor- When I Can
There is no issue with preloading a bipod.
The question was whether they could hook the bipod feet under the strap on the mat or butt the bipod legs up against the board at the edge of the firing line to aid in preloading and to prevent the rifle from moving forward at all. I have requested an inpertpratation from NRA, but have not heard back.
1) The rifle's overall weight, including all attachments such as sights, sling and bipod, must not exceed
8.25 kilograms (approximately 18.18 pounds. An attachment also includes any external object, other
than the competitor and apparel, which recoils or partially recoils with the rifle, or which is clamped,
held, or joined in any way to the rifle for each shot, or which even slightly raises with the lifting of the
rifle from its rest/firing point.
Any advice from others is always appreciated.
The question was whether they could hook the bipod feet under the strap on the mat or butt the bipod legs up against the board at the edge of the firing line to aid in preloading and to prevent the rifle from moving forward at all. I have requested an inpertpratation from NRA, but have not heard back.
1) The rifle's overall weight, including all attachments such as sights, sling and bipod, must not exceed
8.25 kilograms (approximately 18.18 pounds. An attachment also includes any external object, other
than the competitor and apparel, which recoils or partially recoils with the rifle, or which is clamped,
held, or joined in any way to the rifle for each shot, or which even slightly raises with the lifting of the
rifle from its rest/firing point.
Any advice from others is always appreciated.
effendude
Gold $$ Contributor
Whether intentional or not, I usually have a couple pockets dug into the firing line from my toes. I must just push forward a little before each shot to get back into position form recoil.aj300mag said:
Great explanations from RStewart on why "hooking or pushing against" wouldn't be allowed. IMHO, as the rules get pushed, we tend to blur the distinction between the disciplines from what was the original intention of the sport.
Scott
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