I have an 8 twist Krieger barrel, finished at 30", chambered in straight 284. It shoots very well, but slow. Best I can do is barely get to 2800 fps using RL17 and 190 gr Matrix VLDs. I can't get to 2800 comfortably with either 4831SC or H4350 nor 7828ssc. My curiosity is- would there be any merit in trying out an even slower powder like H1000 or Retumbo to get a shallower pressure curve with longer peak energy transfer times. Any stories of success using super slow powders in the standard 284?
Working with a slow 284
- Thread starter rimfiremac
- Start date
What is your powder charge with IMR 7828SSC? It is hard for me to believe you can't easily sail past 2800 with that powder...
I just noticed you are talking about a 190gr pill.. I read 180 by NOT paying attention to detail.. You SHOULD, but not necessarily get to 2800, with a 190gr using ANY powder. BUT If any powder wiill get you there, IMR 7828SSC or even try VV N560..
I just noticed you are talking about a 190gr pill.. I read 180 by NOT paying attention to detail.. You SHOULD, but not necessarily get to 2800, with a 190gr using ANY powder. BUT If any powder wiill get you there, IMR 7828SSC or even try VV N560..
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Yes H1000 will work in the 284. It has worked for two of my friends using bullets with longer bearing surface.(lapua 180 senar,195 EOL,183 sierra) it seems to be to slow for the lighter bullets and shorter bearing surface bullets. H-4350 is the most used powder for this case in F-Class shooting.
If you are suggesting that H4350 is the most used powder in the .284 family of chamberings, the equipment list from last months Berger SWN would seem to dispute that. Granted, H4350 is well represented and there is no direct chambering to powder correlation in that data but the .284 win and 7 Shehane were by far the most popular chamberings and by far H4831SC was the most used powder.
Ok then H4831sc is also a great powder. I have used it in my shehane myself. But for me and a few others fine H4350 in our rifles to more consistent lot to lot powder wise. An also seems to produce lower es's on average. Yes more pressure a little less barrel life but i will take accuracy over velocity any day. It has taking me three years to except that an get at the level of shooting I'm at. I'm just an average shooter. But i have spent alot of money chasing speed changing calibers an so on. Now have almost settle on two powders Varget for dasher H-4350 for 7mm. This is just what I choose. If he does not find a good accurate load with H-4350 then absolutely try H-4831sc.
In my experience with the 190, I began to get traces of shine on case heads with 53gr of 7827ssc (2725 fps), and some resistance on the bolt lift at 54gr (2791 fps). Win brass and cci 200s. Minimal cratering was present, but primer cup edges were trending towards becoming sharp. This is past pressures which I am interested in using on a regular basis.
Using RL17 and the 190, I get 2770 with 51 gr, but pressure signs show at 51.3 and 2800, which would require caution throughout relays on a warm day.
With 4831sc, 55.2 gave 2730 and good precision- 1" vertical 2" horizontal at 300y in testing. 55.5 gave 2750 and 55.7 gave 2790 and pressure signs. Precision at 55.7 was poor. This time using Lapua brass and CCI 200. Overall enough to be happy about, but the Matrix will give up ground to the Hybrid at 2800 for equal drivers.
Incidentally, I tried the old Hornady 162 grain National Match with 7828ssc and similarly could only get to 2870 fps before case head shine showed up at 53 gr in Win brass. I could get to 2920 fps at 54 gr without much additional discernable shine. No cratering. The 162 NM's have similar bearing surface area compared to the 180 Hybrid and 190 VLD.
The new 162 amax will fly at 2920 using 55gr 7828ssc, which I think is acceptable.
Also, in all listed conditions, bullets were moly plated using the wet tumble method. Chronograph used was a magnetospeed 2.
I have some 180 Hybrids moly plated and ready to try when the time becomes available, but I'm not holding my breath.
I am also open to the suggestion that it may be nothing but a waste of time to feel slighted by the additional 50 fps I cannot consistently achieve- after writing my results here, I have begun to think that myself.
Using RL17 and the 190, I get 2770 with 51 gr, but pressure signs show at 51.3 and 2800, which would require caution throughout relays on a warm day.
With 4831sc, 55.2 gave 2730 and good precision- 1" vertical 2" horizontal at 300y in testing. 55.5 gave 2750 and 55.7 gave 2790 and pressure signs. Precision at 55.7 was poor. This time using Lapua brass and CCI 200. Overall enough to be happy about, but the Matrix will give up ground to the Hybrid at 2800 for equal drivers.
Incidentally, I tried the old Hornady 162 grain National Match with 7828ssc and similarly could only get to 2870 fps before case head shine showed up at 53 gr in Win brass. I could get to 2920 fps at 54 gr without much additional discernable shine. No cratering. The 162 NM's have similar bearing surface area compared to the 180 Hybrid and 190 VLD.
The new 162 amax will fly at 2920 using 55gr 7828ssc, which I think is acceptable.
Also, in all listed conditions, bullets were moly plated using the wet tumble method. Chronograph used was a magnetospeed 2.
I have some 180 Hybrids moly plated and ready to try when the time becomes available, but I'm not holding my breath.
I am also open to the suggestion that it may be nothing but a waste of time to feel slighted by the additional 50 fps I cannot consistently achieve- after writing my results here, I have begun to think that myself.
If I were to ream out my freebore to .200 or .220, what effect would this have on the powder burn characteristics? I'm looking to understand the effects of increasing both internal volume and powder capacity simultaneously.
Update:
I have tried four different powders, 54.5gr. H-4831sc
51.4gr, H-4350, 50.7 gr. RL-17 an 57.0gr. N-165
All powders were used in a straight 284 to fire-form Shehane brass. All were 5 shot groups fired from a bench at 105 yds.
Vel. ave. for 20 shots was 2,746fps and a ES of 54fps. for all powders. Hence my conclusion that either all four powders are slow lots, (unlikely) or the bbl. is slow.
I hope this helps,
Lloyd
I have tried four different powders, 54.5gr. H-4831sc
51.4gr, H-4350, 50.7 gr. RL-17 an 57.0gr. N-165
All powders were used in a straight 284 to fire-form Shehane brass. All were 5 shot groups fired from a bench at 105 yds.
Vel. ave. for 20 shots was 2,746fps and a ES of 54fps. for all powders. Hence my conclusion that either all four powders are slow lots, (unlikely) or the bbl. is slow.
I hope this helps,
Lloyd
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