Working up a load ... Now what? Plz help

[pat fulghum]

Thanks all for your comments.... I am going to try CCI BR primers (instead of Fed 210 ...).

 

[Mozella]

Correction I looked at the results wrong. A .250 agg would have won the Shamrock. With the winner of it this year Finishing second with a .2548
Putting Wayne Campbell Larry Costa and Billy Stevens at second, third and fourth

A .250 agg is no easy thing

Aah........... the truth. Ain't it great? "No easy thing" for sure.

I suspect anyone who chases after accuracy in a semi serious way can get a decent factory gun to shoot five-shot sub 1/2 MOA groups on a regular basis. I'll put down 5 bucks and invite you to pick it up if the next 5 shots out of my Howa 1500 "Fun Gun" are worse than 1/2 MOA on a windless day. And even though I have recorded quite a number of sub 1/4 MOA 5-shot groups and my fair share of groups in the "ones", I wouldn't put down a nickle to guarantee my next 5 shots will be sub 1/4 MOA. There is a huge difference between a reasonably reliable 1/2 MOA rifle and a reasonably reliable 1/4 MOA rifle; HUGE.

As you say, a .250 agg is no easy thing. Neither is a sub 1/4 MOA five shot group.

 

[Tim Singleton]

You are rigjt about just shooting a 250 five shot group that is a real 250

It takes a entirely different system than most are casually shooting with.
Like going from gas drag car to top fuel to gain a few seconds

 

[Mozella]

You are rigjt about just shooting a 250 five shot group that is a real 250

It takes a entirely different system than most are casually shooting with.
Like going from gas drag car to top fuel to gain a few seconds

I suppose most people on this forum have shot a sub 1/4 MOA five-shot group. I, and I'm sure many others, have shot plenty of them. But having shot a sub 1/4 MOA five-shot group sometime in the past is a whole lot different from shooting a sub 1/4 MOA group with your next five shots.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I suppose most people on this forum have shot a sub 1/4 MOA five-shot group. I, and I'm sure many others, have shot plenty of them. But having shot a sub 1/4 MOA five-shot group sometime in the past is a whole lot different from shooting a sub 1/4 MOA group with your next five shots.

All you gotta do is go to a br match to see how its really goin. Ive seen my fair share of them 1/4" guns go home before lunch on the first day. Most times (80%+) a 1/4" agg will put you mid pack at best. These days most matches have teen aggs for the top 10. Thats 20 groups averaged in to less than .200moa over 2 days time

 

[Patch700]

I realize this has been brought up and beaten like the proverbial dead horse , however I will say this.. I have rifles that can shoot on a competitive level (over wind flags) but those same rifles will not shoot a consistent competitive grouping when proper use of wind flags has been neglected...

Guys the numbers don't lie... If there is a condition out there that can move your bullets impact .250" at 100 yds and you do not account for this then guess what?.. You will either fluke it off and send it during that same condition 4 more times and be a hero.. Or reality strikes when you try to duplicate it.

To those that say there was no wind to speak of... That would be the equivalent of saying the earth stopped moving on it's axis during the shooting session.. Lol

Incidentally that is a very fine shooting rifle the op has.. Don't wipe out a good barrel chasing .250" when it's actually a condition robbing you of your .250"

 

[Mozella]

All you gotta do is go to a br match to see how its really goin. Ive seen my fair share of them 1/4" guns go home before lunch on the first day. Most times (80%+) a 1/4" agg will put you mid pack at best. These days most matches have teen aggs for the top 10. Thats 20 groups averaged in to less than .200moa over 2 days time

And how many of these guys are shooting factory rifles and working up their first load like the OP?

 

[Dusty Stevens]

None. Thats what ive been trying to say. He may be at the rifle's limits.

 

[Fred Phifer]

Does anyone know any good load data with the Reloader 16 powder ? I have a friend that uses 41.5 gr of it behind the Hornady ELD Match and says he hits the target at 1000 yards almost every time he pulls the trigger in the Ruger Precision Rifle. Any thoughts ?

 

[seymour fish]

First off thanks for all the replies and I did read through the 100 pages of the OCW @100 thread. Very informative. But I'm still having trouble finding my "node".

For H4350 powder,

imrpowder.com lists 40.0 at 2660
but
the Hornady manual shows 40.9 @ 2650

I did some more target shooting at 100yrds.... those targets are 2" in diameter.

I measured my "jump" / Freebore in this rifle with the Hornady tool and a factory cartridge has .060 freebore. I decided to add .020 to my COL (jumping .040 instead of .060) and do another round of charge weights up to 41.5... 5 rounds were shot in round robin with 90s between shots.

The "+.020" means I increased the COL by .020.

To put things into perspective... 39.5 has a center to center vertical spread of .296"
40.5 and 41.5 seem to have a flyer.

View attachment 980815
OP, 40-1/2 to 41 gr on your first test showed a node, although narrow. 41 gr at plus 33 showed improvement. As you are single-loading, can you reach the lands ? If so, why not start .010 Into the lands and work out to cover the territory you have left unexplored. If you cannot reach the lands, at least try incremental seating depths closer to the lands. You are not looking for vertical spread within a single group, nor single group size. You are looking for the center of several consecutive groups to maintain the same placement on the vertical axis.

Just to make sure things were ok before and after. I shot 2 factory loads before and 3 after and those look OK. (see attached factory.jpg).

I had also loaded up some loads with varying seating depths, I choose, 41.0 as this is my desired velocity.

View attachment 980816


I can't seem to find a good pattern or "node"... I can get this to shoot 1/2 MOA, but I would really like to find a more consistent load.

I'm very anal about my reload process trying to keep everything identical and precise.

Any help appreciated.

- pat

O

 

[seymour fish]

OP, you might continue exploring incremental seating depth ever-closer to the lands with your 41 gr until that issue is settled, then work in tenths of a grain from 40.5 to 41.5. Your original powder node was 40.5-41 gr, rather narrow, thus powder or primer may not be optimal. Once seating depth is found, do not hesitate to change either of these. To simplify life: you are not lookinG for group size, nor the amount of vertical in a group, you are screening for the centers of consecutive groups to have the same placement on the vertical axis. You are moving around your equipment to shoot at various bulls, which induces error. You have more information than you want monkeying around with the ocw business and are wasting time and money with it. Simply shoot a Coreighton Audette Ladder. One point of aim for all shots. One shot each increment. Find a cluster of consecutive shots on the vertical axis. Take the middle charge straight to your intended distance, 300-600-1000, and shoot. Fine tune in tenths of a grain as needed.less hassle, more Fun

 

[pat fulghum]

Original post was from April 2016... I got it figured out now....
Just to close this thread..

New Hawk Hill Barrel 28 3/8

41.1 gr H4350
Berger 140 Hybrid
Jump .015

2735 fps

 

[JBT47]

Most 6.5 Creedmoor'sizing have a node in the low to mid 41 grain range and the low to mid 42 grain range. These weights obviously need to be worked up to but most rifles can get there safely.
My savage model 11 LRH shoots 42.4 comfortably even on hot days. That's with 142 smk's

In two different 6.5 Creed Surgeon rifles, my load was 42.4gr H4350 under 140 VLD.

 

[ebb]

I want to know what the 2 shot group at the bottom of the picture would have looked like with 3 more shots. Looking good so far and you wouldn't have to load them. Tell us what the factory load was?

 

[SheepDog]

I would suggest using a smaller bull. If you have less room to aim at you will find that your groups will be smaller.
I find that a 1" bull at 100 yards is a much better target than a 2" bull.