Wind Rose for Rimfire

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Today was the lightest wind we have seen all week, probably 3-5 mph and the predominant wind is usually 10-11 o'clock. We had one day that it was 10-13 at the start and when I finished, it was 18-23 all fish-tailing from 6 o'clock. What I saw again today was that there was much more vertical drop from those 10-11 o'clock conditions. I want to believe the charts but I'm learning that something doesn't line up. Local conditions?

Richard

Richard, are you shooting for score or just groups? look at charts as a example of what could be, but always trust what you see paper meaning if the chart said hold here, but the condition said nope bullet is going here instead who you going to listen to? trust the condition and do what it is telling you, you should do and not the charts.

Lee

 

[rckendall]

Richard, are you shooting for score or just groups? look at charts as a example of what could be, but always trust what you see paper meaning if the chart said hold here, but the condition said nope bullet is going here instead who you going to listen to? trust the condition and do what it is telling you, you should do and not the charts.

Lee

Yes, that is what I am learning. The trouble is, I forget! I shoot a group or two at the start of each session, then 20 shots for score on what I have for an ARA Factory Class Target. Twenty is what fits on an 8 1/2x11 sheet of paper (no official targets available).

My first match is Wednesday this week and I expect completely different conditions, as it will be at a different range. The altitude at our range is 4450 ft and the match will be at around 1250 ft. I am looking forward to it and really don't expect much from myself, but want to have fun and meet some new shooters.

Thanks to everyone for the help,
Richard

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Yes, that is what I am learning. The trouble is, I forget! I shoot a group or two at the start of each session, then 20 shots for score on what I have for an ARA Factory Class Target. Twenty is what fits on an 8 1/2x11 sheet of paper (no official targets available).

My first match is Wednesday this week and I expect completely different conditions, as it will be at a different range. The altitude at our range is 4450 ft and the match will be at around 1250 ft. I am looking forward to it and really don't expect much from myself, but want to have fun and meet some new shooters.

Thanks to everyone for the help,
Richard

Richard,
Main thing is to have fun. also don't expect any kind of condition good or bad just keep an open mind and as mentioned let the condition tell you what you need to do.
if you go there expecting anything what happens when it is not what you were expecting? now you have to regroup and change your thought process.

good luck on Wednesday.

Lee

 

[igolfat8]

I shot an ARA match yesterday and we had mostly head winds, in your face. I had to aim at 12:00 at the top ring for POI to land at 6:00 of the center bull ring. Many times it would land at 4:30 which puzzled me but I had not accounted for RH spin drift.

 

[rckendall]

The first time I shot with a headwind, I knew I should wait it out because I didn’t know where the POI would be. But it was just practice and I was just learning, so I shot it with a center hold. POI was about a bullet diameter low. I did that twice in a row and remembered that.

At other times when I thought it was a headwind, I would get a very low 5 or 7 o’clock POI. I think that is the danger of shooting that condition, very slight angles can cause big differences.

I welcome comments as I am open to hearing from others.

Richard

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

The first time I shot with a headwind, I knew I should wait it out because I didn’t know where the POI would be. But it was just practice and I was just learning, so I shot it with a center hold. POI was about a bullet diameter low. I did that twice in a row and remembered that.

At other times when I thought it was a headwind, I would get a very low 5 or 7 o’clock POI. I think that is the danger of shooting that condition, very slight angles can cause big differences.

I welcome comments as I am open to hearing from others.

Richard

Me thinks you are exactly correct. There is vertical and horizontal in a switchy headwind(or tail). I try to avoid it but it can work at times, mostly on ranges with few or no topographical issues, like berms and trees. I still never trust it and try my best to shoot just about anything else when possible. I've won because of that and I've lost for being too hardheaded to shoot it when it was the best thing offered on a given day.

 

[slamfire1]

Shot in a small bore regional next to a National Champ and he has one of those Z wind roses on his ammunition box. And, the movement is real.

His tactics with irons, shoot in the predominate wind conditions. He also shades the bull in the front aperture, won't touch the sights if possible once set for conditions, and claims to see the impact change with the bullet rotation. Which is the 10 OC and 4 OC you see in some of those wind roses. If the wind is moving left to right, the bullet will move to 4 OC due to bullet rotation. If from right to left, 10 OC. I can't hold that hard to notice the difference with a scope. He can with irons.

Bud also is absolutely supernatural with understanding how wind moves across the course. It was this flag and that flag in alignment which meant it was OK to shoot, but those other flags, misleading.

You have to shoot enough to realise, the difference between the wanna bees (and I are one) and the big dogs, is the ability to read wind conditions and only shoot when everything is identical. I try to shoot in calms, but calms are rare, and then, I run the real risk of a change up.

 

[Dgd6mm]

The first time I shot with a headwind, I knew I should wait it out because I didn’t know where the POI would be. But it was just practice and I was just learning, so I shot it with a center hold. POI was about a bullet diameter low. I did that twice in a row and remembered that.

At other times when I thought it was a headwind, I would get a very low 5 or 7 o’clock POI. I think that is the danger of shooting that condition, very slight angles can cause big differences.

I welcome comments as I am open to hearing from others.

Richard

I experienced this exact thing just yesterday. I know it's only a small part of the equation, but it's still learning.

 

[igolfat8]

What is 4 OC and 10 OC?

 

[65joe]

What is 4 OC and 10 OC?

4 o'clock and 10 o'clock

 

[igolfat8]

So if the wind is moving L to R and the POI is 4-OC where is your point of aim? Would it be 8OC?

 

[Hozzie]

So if the wind is moving L to R and the POI is 4-OC where is your point of aim? Would it be 8OC?

10 OC

 

[igolfat8]

But 10OC doesn’t factor in spin drift and therefore wouldn’t POI would be 6OC?

 

[doclu60]

Throw those wind charts in the garbage. Here's one example. All wind charts show 7 o'clock quartering wind pushing the bullet slightly low right. I can tell you for sure on several ranges I have shot, including my own club, that bullet is going high right. A club I shot yesterday and on the bench I was on, that 7 o'clock wind pushed the bullet high right, not low right. Those charts show where physics say the bullet should go, and that means nothing in the real world. On another bench on that range yesterday, that bullet may have gone where the chart said it would, but how do you know without sighters?

I gave Hi-NV Shooter several likes on his posts here because he does tell the real story. Topographical features of any given venue is going to make a liar out of that wind rose. Other things such as clouds/no clouds, dew on the grass burning off/no dew on the grass.....or no grass on the field. Humidity level, temperature, etc will also change where that bullet goes no matter what that chart says.

Lee (Hi-NV Shooter) gets it........shoot sighters. They are the only thing you can trust. Learn to read your flags (key word.....flags, not flag), and that takes time and practice. Small angles of wind changes things dramatically. During the course of your time on the clock, don't trust what you think was happening a couple of minutes ago, especially if you shoot one out (loss of points). It's called 'keeping up with the gun'. When you change lines/columns on the card (most really good shooters shoot lines, not columns), shoot more sighters. A lot of times the POI will slightly change as you traverse the target. If your last shot didn't go exactly where you expected, even if it was good shot (no loss of points), stop, and go back to a sighters.

IME wind roses have little to nothing to do with when/how a bullet will hit the center of a target in the real world of competing in a rimfire match. The only thing that tells you, at that place, at that time, is flag/windicator position, confirmed by a sighter.

Scott

 

[VLNBYR]

As usual Scott has nailed it, sighters are TRUTH. I will add one thing....most shooters have so much variation in their rifle, ammo, skills, etc. that they can never really know what is causing their shots to go where they do. Another thing you will see is most of a shooters misses either high, or low, or left or right. This is easily corrected. Once time starts spend AT LEAST 5 minutes shooting sighters and groups until you have some confidence what is going on down range.

 

[Appalachian]

Once time starts spend AT LEAST 5 minutes shooting sighters and groups until you have some confidence what is going on down range.

Good advice. I shoot a few shots to foul, but if they’re hitting where I want them to I move on to the scores. I’ll start spending more time before I move on.
Congrats BTW for winning KY State UL tournament, on a bipod no less. Oh and I hear graphite is good for the skin.

 

[VLNBYR]

Good advice. I shoot a few shots to foul, but if they’re hitting where I want them to I move on to the scores. I’ll start spending more time before I move on.
Congrats BTW for winning KY State UL tournament, on a bipod no less. Oh and I hear graphite is good for the skin.

Talcum powder works too but graphite is more manly.