Wind flags

[Texas Solo]

I just shot a hard wind match at talladega cmp.
As usual, flags were moving in opposite directions. Twice they were full value right wind. I had a touch to much dope on the scope, so I held left at 9 O'CLOCK on the 10 ring. I ended up with an 8 at 3 O'CLOCK....TWICE!
How do you go right on a full value right wind? Other guys had the same experience.

Then one top shooter said he saw mirage at 200yds going to the right. I can only guess that the wind at higher elevation was a right wind while at target height was a left wind.

This season I said I was going to improve my wind skills. I've been working on flag reading with moderate success. Trying to read mirage gives me a headache. So many variables. Does anyone else get confused with mirage?

 

[Bill Norris]

I just shot a hard wind match at talladega cmp.
As usual, flags were moving in opposite directions. Twice they were full value right wind. I had a touch to much dope on the scope, so I held left at 9 O'CLOCK on the 10 ring. I ended up with an 8 at 3 O'CLOCK....TWICE!
How do you go right on a full value right wind? Other guys had the same experience.

Then one top shooter said he saw mirage at 200yds going to the right. I can only guess that the wind at higher elevation was a right wind while at target height was a left wind.

This season I said I was going to improve my wind skills. I've been working on flag reading with moderate success. Trying to read mirage gives me a headache. So many variables. Does anyone else get confused with mirage?

Just learning to deal with wind and finding as you said confusion sets in when it appears the wind is doing one thing and mirage doing another.

 

[jackieschmidt]

What distance. 600 yards?

 

[Texas Solo]

What distance. 600 yards?

yes, 600

 

[jackieschmidt]

The problem with flag reading at longer distances is there is a limit to how many you can set out without getting overwhelmed. We used to shoot 600 yard clay break matches with a five flag set. But with that, you still don’t know what is going in between the flags. The best they told you was avoiding shooting in some type of reversal.

I have always thought that (from experience), that 300 yards was about the maximum distance for precision flag reading. That leaves mirage as your other alternative.

But with mirage, you are generally seeing the flow where the scope is focused. In your case, 600 yards.
I have no idea how someone could see mirage at 200 with a 600 yard focus.

At anything short of 300, I watch flags. 90% of the time, I am not even looking through the scope when I decide to let the shot go.

Bart Sauter uses flags at 600, he might be the one to give you some good tips on how many he sets, and what to watch for.

 

[lawman29]

CMP Talladega Marksmanship Park - Civilian Marksmanship Program

The CMP Talladega Marksmanship Park is a 500-acre facility for rifle, pistol and shotgun competition and educational opportunities.

thecmp.org

I think there is a misunderstanding of "flags". The high-power ranges will have large flags on either side of the range that are run up a pole. On big ranges you may have some that are in the field like at Ben Avery (large flags run up a pole). There are not personal flags scattered about between the shooters and the target.

 

[6BRA]

CMP Talladega Marksmanship Park - Civilian Marksmanship Program

The CMP Talladega Marksmanship Park is a 500-acre facility for rifle, pistol and shotgun competition and educational opportunities.

thecmp.org

I think there is a misunderstanding of "flags". The high-power range will have large flags on either side of the range that are run up a pole. There are not personal flags scattered about between the shooters and the target.

There should be. Unless it's not allowed. Those big flags won't get the job done.

 

[cavedweller60]

There should be. Unless it's not allowed. Those big flags won't get the job done.

As far as I know, the only wind flags allowed under CMP rules are the big flags the range facility / MD places at specified distances on the course. I believe that NRA long range is the same.

 

[Fire Dog]

As far as I know, the only wind flags allowed under CMP rules are the big flags the range facility / MD places at specified distances on the course. I believe that NRA long range is the same.

Same in OZ, only large range flags along the side of the range and one centre on the top of the butt.
Individual/personal wind flags only for short range BR 100-200 meters.
If you are shooting off the mound at longer distances than learning to read a mirage is essential … as well as keeping an eye on the range flags for a sudden flutter/change overall.
If humidity is up you may be able to read vapour trails and even keeping an eye on any grass/weeds down range can help with a wind call.
Also no electronic wind reading devices such as Kestrel allowed on the shooting position..

 

[dgeesaman]

If you shoot when a flag is fully extended you know direction but you actually don’t know what the speed is. You just know it’s blowing hard enough to at least fully extend the flag. You’ll have to shoot on a less severe condition for the flag to indicate speed.

 

[Texas Solo]

"I have no idea how someone could see mirage at 200 with a 600 yard focus."

Simple...turn the focus knob.

At Cmp Talladega, they have 3 flags on either side, at 200, 300 & 600.

 

[6BRA]

"I have no idea how someone could see mirage at 200 with a 600 yard focus."

Simple...turn the focus knob.

At Cmp Talladega, they have 3 flags on either side, at 200, 300 & 600.

And watch your point of impact change.

 

[Walt Krafft]

When I move back to 600 from 300, I don't adjust the focus of my spotting scope. That helps with reading the mirage. With a scope on the rifle, the mirage can usually be seen on the number boards or the edges of the targets.

 

[Dgd6mm]

Reading the wind by Jim Owen's. An easy read and easy to understand.

 

[JEFFPPC]

Just learning to deal with wind and finding as you said confusion sets in when it appears the wind is doing one thing and mirage doing another.

Yes it is at times confusing. However I think some use that as their excuse to not use flags. Never shoot without them and no matter how thick headed you might be, some of it will start to sink in and help you. As I heard a teacher once say, I can't actually means I won't.

 

[lawman29]

If you shoot when a flag is fully extended you know direction but you actually don’t know what the speed is. You just know it’s blowing hard enough to at least fully extend the flag.

The number of "ripples" in a fully extended flag will provide info on speed.

 

[Bill Norris]

Yes it is at times confusing. However I think some use that as their excuse to not use flags. Never shoot without them and no matter how thick headed you might be, some of it will start to sink in and help you. As I heard a teacher once say, I can't actually means I won't.

Oh yea I never test without them anymore.

 

[jackieschmidt]

If the Match Rules do not allow personal flags, then it’s all a moot point even discussing them for CMP Matches.

I tend to look at things from a Short Range Benchrest point of view, which does not correlate to this type of shooting.

 

[Evan]

I have always found mirage to be more reliable than flags at 600 and 1000. Range flags are big heavy things on poles way out away from where your bullet is traveling. They can help inform your decisions but don’t let a round off while the mirage is changing, even if the flags are consistent, or you will get a flier.

 

[rardoin]

Those big flags won't get the job done.

In NRA High Power, yes, not allowed. They will get the job done but reading mirage in a spotting scope and rifle scope are of GREAT aid. I called wind for my team mate and he for me this past weekend at a 600yd team event. On the second day of the match, there was little mirage to rely upon. We scored 800/60X and Lou ended up with a 200/19x in one match; yes, those big flags up high can get it done if you pay attention to everything going on around you. On the other hand, for those who have shot at 1000yds at Red Castle (Tulsa), the utility of those big flags way down beneath you are of little value