Wind flags

[ElJay]

In my quest to improve accuracy, I have been asked if I use wind flags. Even if I had them, I don't know how to go about reading/using them. I am sure this august body can provide some guidance. Help!

 

[BoydAllen]

Learning to read flags takes some time, and should be approached gradually. Start out with one flag that is say, 25 yards from your bench, when shooting at 100 yards. Set about your usual shooting, and I suggest that you look for patterns in the direction and velocity of the wind. Heck, you can put it out in your yard, and do the same thing. Just remember, if you start your group when the flag shows the least wind, and that condition does not repeat, during the time allotted to shoot your group, you will have made a mistake. After you get used to looking at one flag, without going into information overload, put out another, perhaps at 50 yards. Now you are looking at twice the information, and patterns that occur involving them both. It may be that one flag goes one way, while the other goes another, but if that condition stays around long enough to shoot a group (quickly) or it comes back to the same condition fairly often, that will work too. For any of this, a really accurate rifle, that is tuned up, that you are shooting off of a steady support system is the best way to see what the wind is doing, as opposed to how your rifle is shooting. With a good rifle, load and rest, you can learn a lot pretty quickly. Another thing, rather than shooting "wallet groups" in easy conditions all the time, take shoots ( on a sighter target if you like) just to learn how much a given angle and velocity displaces the bullet, and in what direction on the target. You won't learn much about that if you don't do the "research". As you get used to one more flag, you can add to a total of four for shooting at 100 yd. and five or six at 200, or stay with as few as you like. That should give you something to think about. BTW, Rick Graham makes very good flags, and is a very skilled benchrest shooter. http://www.brflags.com/

 

[markr]

Read Tony Boyers book as well as Mike Rattigans. Then buy 5 or 6 flags from one of the better flag makers.

 

[ReedG]

Wind flags are a necessity to competitive shooting or load development. Almost anyone can buy/build a very accurate rifle, but the key to shooting it well is reading and understanding the "conditions" of wind and mirage.

A barrel with right twist rotates a bullet so that it "climbs up" a wind from the right and under a wind from the left. Understanding the effect on your particular cartridge/load can only be done by shooting in different conditions and observing what those conditions do to the bullet. A wind from the right will move a bullet to the left and up; a wind from the left will move it to the right and down; proportional to the angle of the wind.

This little chart has been around for years, but gives a good example of how the wind affects a bullet from a right-twist barrel.

Even if you start with a couple of stakes with surveyor's tape tacked to the top, it will begin to give you an understanding of "shooting the wind". At 100 yards, two flags is a good start. Find a "condition" (which usually means the flags doing a certain thing at the same time, like all pointing from 1:00), shoot it and see what happens. If the bullet is a certain distance from where it would have been in a calm, shoot again but hold off by the amount and opposite distance. There is no substitute for shooting in different conditions and grasping what that condition is doing to affect the flight of the bullet.

Enjoy ... Reed

 

[Nodak7mm]

Great info posted by Boyd and the others. I am still very green with shooting the wind and try to learn something each time I shoot. So when I go shoot by myself, I bring my flags and watch them, regardless of the range I am shooting at..

I use Dave Halblom's flags and love them. That and Dave is just great guy and a hoot to talk to.. Take a look at his stuff here: http://www.flyingfishfundamentals.com/index.htm

Rod

 

[Bulseyetom]

I think 3 wind flags for 100 yard shooting is all a novice can handle unless he is shooting competitively. If I was working up loads at the local range I would use 2 maximum until I got a better feel for reading the wind. I really like the dual vane ones to see the angle of the wind better. It is unreal when shooting a competitive benchrest rifle how a small switch in wind can make a 1/8" group into a 3/8" group! I think back to when I was trying to compete at 100 yards and the mental anguish of trying to pick the right condition to begin the group so that the next 4 shots would be easier to duplicate conditions without holding for the wind. My poor brain would ache all the way home on a 3 hour drive! Just my 2 cents. Tom

 

[doc gordon]

i know O.O about flags!what is this chart telling me ??

 

[Glenn Powell]

Don't mind me, just marking the thread so its easier to follow. Great info by the way ;D

 

[BoydAllen]

When I stopped by during the last match at Visalia, there was one lone daisy wheel in the field of flags. Hereabouts the trend has been away from them. If you go to a match, as a spectator, I suggest that you stand behind benches that have several different kinds of flags in front of them and see which seem easier for you to keep track of.

 

[GSPV]

I use Ezell's Neon flags with David Halblom's sail tails. The daisy on these flags is super sensitive. It will begin moving about when surveyors tape does. The sail tails are like a wind probe on its side. The two together give you a really easy to read system.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

A link to the flags Greg is referring to. They are a GREAT flag!--Mike
http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php?topic=3794278.msg36112345#msg36112345

 

[GSPV]

DocGordon,

That chart is telling you that for right hand twist barrels, a left to right wind pushes the bullet to the right and down. Conversely, a right to left will push it to the left and up. A head wind pushes the bullet down while a tailwind pushes it up.

In more detail, the chart shows the impact point for a given wind intensity and direction.

 

[BoydAllen]

I have found that the whole headwind, tailwind, up or down thing can be significantly influenced by range features that change the up or down component of the wind, and for that reason it is best to do a little testing on the range that you are shooting at. For those that have not shot short range benchrest, the targets have sighter aiming points on which you can fire unlimited shots (within the match time limit), before, while, and after shooting ones record group.

 

[LHSmith]

I used to have that wind chart taped to my range box. Funny thing is it rarely agreed with what my sighters were telling me....so it went in the circular file. Like Boyd said, individual ranges have their own idiosyncrasies, and the way a rifle tune acts during a particular part of the day may favor one specific condition. When pre-loading for an upcoming match, I research my records to find a load that stays in tune relative to the anticipated conditions of the next days match. On match day I have to have confidence in what my sighters are telling me....and not second guess them.
My suggestion is to keep detailed records and make up your own charts for each gun/bullet/powder combination.

 

[BoydAllen]

We have a new 30x zoom digital still camera, that also takes high def. video, and with the 4 G memory chip that it came with, I can record almost a half of an hour of video. It might be fun to put up a rimfire score target at 100 yards and shoot in a variety of conditions, holding center for each shot, on a different target. I could call out the shot number before the next shot to make sure that I had the right target with the particular video clip, and perhaps pull a still off of the video (Can I don that?) at the instant of each shot. If I can manage to get all the flags in the shot, where they can be easily seen, there might be something to be learned. Now that I think about it, leaving it as a video gets the job done. All anyone that was watching would have to do is pause the scene just as he hears a shot.

 

[GSPV]

The chart, IMHO, is just a rule of thumb. It ASSumes no vertical component of wind. That is rarely true. I think it is useful to show new folks the effect of gyroscopic moments creating a vertical component of wind drift. I mean, come on, this is simply non intuitive.

I hardly ever think about this shooting. I'm looking at my sighter and the POI of my last shot.

 

[madderg]

I have always thought that a flag was needed just in front of the muzzle blast, say 10 yards out... and that was the most important one. An old shooter friend of mine that has passed on explained it like this..."think of a bowling ally..now put a strong fan out close to the pins and roll the ball. It doesn't change much does it? Now put the same fan just in front of where the ball lands at the start of the lane...now your off a lot!" So I put my flags at about 10 and 30 yards because that's were the gremlins occur were the most damage can be done. Farther down range the bullet has gone to "sleep" and is flying true. Just my two cents.

 

[Bulseyetom]

The first flag is very important but they all have impact on the flight of the bullet. At San Gabriel we shot over berms and they caused vertical which was a real challenge to deal with at times. I admire the man who dances with the flags and wins the agg shoot after shoot cuz it is not easy!

 

[Win94ae]

My 30-30 was instrumental in my learning of reading wind... actually allotting myself one shot a day was more so instrumental.

I have my own range so its convenient.

 

[cocopuff]

I have played with the wind thing for awhile myself...But WOULDN'T YOU HAVE to have an idea on what he wind speed is befor you can tell anything for sure....I mean shooting in a 10 mph versus a 30 mph...