Wind Flags & Flagging - New Stuff

[StephenPerry]

Shooters
I always call what some call tails as flagging. Mainly because when I started benchrest back in the 70's wind flags were very simple and surveyors flagging was the common tail. Some used only the flagging no vane. I have done this sometimes because I forgot my wind flags. Just set yet your stand out there and tie some flagging to the top. Some times in practice I do this for a break from conventional wind flags. Flagging by itself indicates the wind the same.
For me I carry a half dozen rolls of flagging in different colors. If I can get it I prefer the construction grade flagging doesn't tear as easy. When I look out in the field I see alot of orange and yellow tails/flagging blowing around. I try and counter this with green, white, or sometimes blue flagging. If the guys on both sides are flying dark tails I can go orange or yellow.
In Arizona I tie 1 long piece of flagging to rise and fall and not flutter around so much. For Ranges that switch often a double flagging to watch for quick changes and the split tails allow for sensitive pickup and let offs.
Alot of sail tails out there. They work fine but I use somebody else's flags to watch those, for free.
Try different flagging surveyor/construction flagging is cheap carry some you have it when you might need it.
Stephen Perry

 

[tightneck]

I've tried quite a few different colors of surveyor's tape and I find the darker ones stick out the best for me. Maybe just because everyone else is using the fluorescent colors. I have some heavy duty black tails that I got from David Halblom that I like a lot. I have thought about trying out the stiffer Sail tails to see if I can tell the difference, but I am pretty happy with what I have now.

 

[StephenPerry]

TN
I have a couple sets of tails made of sail material. I have not used them yet. One thing about sail material it doesn't show the gentle up's and down like surveyors flagging does. My best shooting bud used the sail material and now has gone back to the flagging.
I think that the force or wind in simpler terms of a long sail tail requires is heavy and it's cross-section requires more lift like like a wing to lift and stays up longer when the lift settles. Flagging of the surveyor variety has small cross-section and reacts quicker to lift and fall. If you ever shoot at Ben Avery this is a good test bed for tail material.
Stephen Perry

 

[WayneShaw]

Flag tails come in many different styles. When it's all said and done, surveyors flagging does just as good as anything. Sail cloth, sail cloth starched in an arc, cloth, nylon, it all does the same thing.

I will say tho, when the wind is really blowing, it is good to have tails that are heavier than flagging. Let's face it, when flagging is straight out, it's hard to see a difference. That's where a heavier material will be more resistant to the wind and give you something to think about.

 

[StephenPerry]

Wayne
Not sure what parts of the Country you shoot BR but if you shoot the Phoenix Range you know at times it is the windiest or close to it in the Country. I don't need to list names because some of the finest shooters in the World shoot short range BR there.
I see alot of shooters changing over to the long single piece of surveyors flagging any color. I have seen where a couple feet is laying on the ground because the shooter knows the wind pick it off the ground. In the worst blow these long pieces single pieces of surveyor ribbon never fly straight out while every short sail tail and anything else is completely useless. I think a tail that is 5 feet long creates enough drag that makes it still readable in a blow. I know I watch those tails if they are in my area. Going to Phoenix Range in December to shoot the Arizona Invitational 5 shot IBS HB in the weekend Dec 2-3.
Stephen Perry

 

[WayneShaw]

Stephen, I shoot on the east coast, but I have shot at Ben Avery once. The problem I see with real long tails, is that around here, we get very switchy winds at times, and an excessively long tail will wrap itself around the pole rendering it useless. Once the first match starts, you can't fix it. Also, we have ranges where the height of the flag can be as little as 18" off the ground, you have to get creative to deal with conditions. That's where differing types of tails can be a benefit. I know one shooter that made tails out of nylon, about an inch wide, and he sewed a pocket at the bottom. When things get nasty, he drops a bullet in the pocket. We have to realize there is no one answer to every range/condition, and everyone has they're own preference.

 

[StephenPerry]

Wayne
If Phoenix is not in a blow situation I use surveyor flagging tails just off the ground. At a range like Visalia or Midland that switches faster than I can reload my rifle I may go a couple inches shorter to avoid the wrapping around my pole. You have the right idea Wayne. That's why watching other flags in your area is a perk you paid for when you signed up. I like to watch the $200 flags and thank the guy for buying them.
The size and shape of the flag is something I'd like to talk to. Gary Ocock has used the same set of flags since I have known him at shoots where there are a few rotations. At the Nats where there are 38 bench rotations I would imagine he gets on a flag rotation that has other flags he likes, probably Ed Adam's group. But when Gary goes to a Range we all shoot he uses these submarine type flags, fast and sleek, with surveyor tape. Never re-paints them leaves them laying around for someone to take probably the same poles he started with. Gary's flags don't stand-out for others to watch but some should. Flags can be what you want sometimes taking on the personality of the shooter. To me the simpler the better are better.
Stephen Perry

 

[tightneck]

Wayne figured out the switchy conditions last weekend and again today to capture a couple of wins against almost 30 shooters each day. Good shooting Wayne.

 

[lmorrison17]

I have built my own set of flags. The poles are complete, the tops are mostly done. All that is left is to configure and balance the tops. From what I have read so far a few things I have learned or believe are that lighter is probably better, they should be balanced a fuzz tail heavy, there is such a thing as too responsive and daises will affect responsiveness. I have daises to put on them but I don't plan on using them for the time being. Also I think a shorter nose to tail would be better. I have looked at every picture I could find on the net from different manufacturers. I have a few questions still. Is shorter better? At what point does longer become too long? Whats better for balancing more weight closer to the pivot point orr less weight farther out? My plan at the moment is to set up several tops side by side and observe them. My reason for posting here is to solicit opinions from others who have experience using flags. I will include a picture of 3 tops. The vanes and tails are identical. The horizontal rods are identical except the one on the left has been shortened by about 3.5". The difference in the other 2 is how far up the vane is mounted on the rod allowing for a longer or shorter tip to tail length. They will all have a 2" Nerf ball on the tip that will be painted on half to help with identifying head/tail wind and an adjustable counter weight for balance. Has anyone else made there own flags, what did you find was best, can you post some pics of your flags, do you have any ideas or tips that might help shorten my learning curve? Thanks.

 

[tightneck]

Where are you in MD? If you would like to see lots of different flags by many different makers, come to a match. Thurmont holds quite a few IBS matches and if you are not too far, Fairfax rod and Gun will be holding a 200 yd score shoot on Feb 18th.

 

[lmorrison17]

Tightneck I'm from up in Cecil Co. Have shot a Thurmont once. I set up some of the flags this evening. One flag with the vane mounted the farthest forward on the horizontal rod just would not balance with the weights I had, I think more weight would have just been too much except maybe in VERY windy conditions. The other 2 having the vane and pivot mounted the same. The only difference was that one had a longer horizontal rod forward of the pivot point. The were both balanced a tiny bit tail heavy by the same amount. The longer of the 2 tops balanced with the weight closer to the pivot point. the weights on both were the same by the way. The shorter of the 2 reacted to changes faster and settled faster but did seem a little more twitchy than the longer one. The longer was not only slower to react it tended to overrun the switches more than the shorter one. Tomorrow I'm going try one perfectly balanced with the ribbon tail and the other tail heavy with the ribbon.

 

[lmorrison17]

Ok Im about done with my flags and ready to balance them. Ive read 2 things here make em tail heavey and balence em with the tails on.What ive decided to do is balance 2 with the tails and 2 without
and then add the tails to make em tailheavy and see what happens.

 

[Woodman]

What is the best pivot material? I have seen types with the opposite polarity magnet pivot, dalron pivot and delrin pivot with stainless steel pivot bearing. I imagine the magnet type must be precisely spaced apart. Which works best over a long period of time?

 

[lmorrison17]

I used a ball bearing at the top of the pivot pin hole. It works really good. But I cant help but think the magnets might be the best. what could off less friction than air. The magnets space themseleves apart. One goes on the flagpole around the pivot pin, these magnets are round and have a hole in the center) the opposing magnet goes in the flag pivot. Slide the flag top over the pivot pin and Their reverse polarity keeps keeps the flaghead floating on air.Had a pic once of the actual flag setup but I deleted it. you can get the magnets on ebay. for about 20$

 

[RA]

I also have built my own flags….For 2 years my backyard looked like a flag factory, dunno how many times people asked me what was going on….The flag is the single most important part of shooting especially when the match starts….All other equipment should be tried and proven, and the focus is only on the flags….My point, what ever makes you more confident in reading the conditions when you sit down to the bench is what you should go with….Too many schools of thought on flags and it shows as for how many different kinds you’ll see….My flags have no daisy wheels, single vane, pivot made of bearing nylon, stainless inserts, riding on harder than the hubs of H--- steel pins….It is my belief that the tails tell the shooter what wind is in the picture and how much, not something spinning on the front of the flag…I found the daisy to be more of a distraction … The tails that I finally settled on are made of rip-stop nylon, purchased from a fabric store….they have their faults, but work for me in most conditions…. If you cut strips to 1.5 inches in width, install an eyelet also available from the fabric store, press them with steam between a sheet of cotton to obtain a curl so they resemble a 1/3 to1/2 tube, they will not flutter in the wind, this has a calming affect for me…. At this point when they stand out from wind you read the degrees or angle to determine the wind value…I just wish I could find the old sniper training manual I had from the late 60’s, this told the story…Also the sensitivity or responsiveness of the flag is debatable, for mine I want to see a condition change before anyone else…Point..Last year I stood on a local range with a hundred flags in front of me at 6:30 in the morning, no wind, no tails moving, but my flags were moving and the only one’s moving…This is what I strive to achieve….Right or Wrong? Just my point of view and my 2 cents…I appreciate everyone’s viewpoint, it is what makes the world go around and also changes opinions…Good Shooting…. Rick

 

[StephenPerry]

IMorrison17
Most of my flags have a sliding balance weight behind the vane. These are what I call my flag forward flags. The metal cylinder is about an 1 1/2 in long about 1/2 in diameter. I can balance my flag by sliding the weight to and fro on their stands. Balance can change depending terrain the stand or pole I set them on and how vertical I have them.
Ultimate winds generally 20 mph and up will tip the flag back I don't correct for this as direction changes and let-ups make the change pointless. Since I use light tails my flags are sensitive. No good to have flags that go around in circles everytime a meandering breeze comes by. Flags should react quick and hold steady in a blow.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

 

[butchlambert]

Just shipped 2 of our Aussie wind flags to the Air Force in the Middle East. They will be used to aid in launching the Desert Hawk unmanned spyplanes. We are honored that they picked our product.
Butch
www.shadetreeea.com