Winchester Primers (WSR) -- Issues?

[jds holler]

I've pretty much used CCI's all my life, and never had any problems. With shortages in the last several years, I picked up some Winchester's and have just started using them recently.

The rifle I'm having issues with is my Rem 40X in 22BR. Had a few pierced primers the other day with some loads on the upper end of the spectrum. No problem I thought, the lower loads tested shot better anyway.

These are first shot fireform loads, and giving good enough accuracy for squirrel shooting, so I loaded up 75 of them and went shooting. Target rich environment, and the slaughter was unspeakable. I didn't get crazy though and let the rifle rest after every 5-10 shots. However I still got several pierced primers, about a dozen out of the 75 shots I fired. Some of them blew the tiny disc of brass out of the primer, leaving it in the action/lug recess area. Another time leaving it in the firing pin hole, causing a light strike on the next round.

No other signs of high pressure-- easy bolt lift, no excessive flattening/cratering, no ejector extruding, -- Load is 29 gr. IMR 4895, under 55 gr. Sierra FBPT., .005" off the lands.

Anybody have anything like this with Win. primers? jd

 

[Homerange]

This is not the first time I've encountered mention of failing Win primers although yours seems like it could be a firing pin problem, maybe you should have it checked?

Mostly Win primers have developed a bad rep with HOT loads with failure at the folded edge of the primer resulting in bolt face erosion, and this I have seen in several rifles.
More discussion here:
http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/expanded-case-head.3833207/#post-36332737

 

[broncman]

I quit using Winchester large rifle primers. 2 summers ago, that was all I could get for practice and with a load well under max in my 308, I had 3 pierced primers. Same firing pin still in gun and no issues with CC I or Wolf.

I thought the first one was a fluke, second one I wondered about brass. Third was second firing of new brass.

 

[FatBoy]

Is your firing pin bushed? If not, that is almost certainly the issue. I had the same issue with m70 actions and 6BR. You don't need a small pin, just a tight fitting pin.

CCIs have thick cups, which is probably why they didn't pierce. In my case, CCIs pierced too.

 

[jds holler]

My first thought was the firing pin, but I don't think it's the culprit. It fits very nicely in it's hole. I was thinking that it may be too squared at the tip, making for the "paper punch syndrome", but after disassembling the bolt and inspecting, it's not the problem..

A friend just gave me his thoughts -- that with my freshly formed cases, my head space is a little much, allowing the case to recoil rearward at ignition while the pin is extended. This seems plausible, and I'll know more when I load these cases up again. jd

 

[Shynloco]

Like others, a few years ago I bought 1000 Large Win Primers to use in reloading just to have some extras around just in case and use to load for hunting loads. And I too have primarily used Federal and CCI Primers (Benchrest shooting) in the past and have had no issues until I started using Win Primers. To put it politely, I won't buy or use Win Primers again...ain't worth the savings or aggravation. You'd think in an age of more people reloading and looking for better accuracy, that Winchester would make a better and more reliable product.

Alex

 

[jds holler]

Well, I'm gonna give these another try with some more of these same loads. If the same problem persists, I'll burn them up in my Bee. I've used them with that rifle with no problems. Much lower pressure loads. jd

 

[fguffey]

Pierced primers with no other sign of high pressure; it only happens to me but when I experience pierced primers I focus on determining where the difference in pressure is located.


Normally my firing pin puts a dent into the primer; it is normally a big dent and then the pressure inside the primer forces the primer to conform to the protruding firing pin. When plans do not go as planed and I wound up with a hole in the primer the first thing I check is the firing pin spring. The pressure applied to the primer by the firing pin must be greater than the pressure inside of the primer.


F. Guffey

 

[Cold Bore]

While not a 22BR, I've used "a few" thousands of WSR primers in 223 loads through my AR-15's with no issues.

 

[Paddyd]

This seems odd to me. After all, doesn't Winchester use Winchester primers in it's factory loaded ammo? Never heard of any Winchester ammo coming out of the box blowing primers.

 

[Shaggy357]

WSR primers are HOTTER than CCI BR4 or Stnd SR primers. If you were running a load on the top end with CCI's, the WSR probably took it from mild to wild. Reduce load 1/2 to 1 grain and try again.

Steve

 

[Ketosan]

WSR primers are HOTTER than CCI BR4 or Stnd SR primers. If you were running a load on the top end with CCI's, the WSR probably took it from mild to wild. Reduce load 1/2 to 1 grain and try again.

Steve

I would agree with this assessment--loaded some 308 with CCI, Federal and Winchester primers to check accuracy etc. The Winchester Large Rifle primers produced an average of 40 FPS faster velocities. I have loaded literally thousands of rounds of pistol, rifle, and magnum rifle loads with Winchester primers and never had issue with blown primers.

 

[dkhunt14]

This seems odd to me. After all, doesn't Winchester use Winchester primers in it's factory loaded ammo? Never heard of any Winchester ammo coming out of the box blowing primers.

The BR and Dasher run at higher pressure then most other cases. Winchester doesn't make factory loaded ammo in these. In all our shooting with Dashers the BR4 was the only one to stand up to the pressures and not blank. Matt

 

[jds holler]

WSR primers are HOTTER than CCI BR4 or Stnd SR primers. If you were running a load on the top end with CCI's, the WSR probably took it from mild to wild. Reduce load 1/2 to 1 grain and try again.

Steve

This load is one grain above the starting load on the Nosler site, and is listed for Winchester primers. These shells revealed no high pressure signs that would be present with even a moderately hot load. Simply pierced primers on about 15% of the primers. jd