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Winchester, Pre 64 Model 70, Bolt stuck in gun.

Blue-Mule

first post here, been lurking awhile.

Took my Dads pre 64 model 70 out yesterday. It hasnt been shot in 30 years probably.
wanted to put some rounds through it and ring some long distance steel.

One reason i havent used it is the safety is stuck in FIRE posistion. After some reading i think i know why that is.

I load up 3 rounds and touch off the first round. it goes BANG and shot is well off target.
I go to cycle action and bolt only rotates maybe 20 degrees and stops.
I fiddled with it a little, drop the 2 live rounds out bottom plate, fiddle some more...nada.

Pack up, go home, start searching the web for answers...LOTS about the safety issue, very little about bolt problem.The few hits i did get on bolt ranged from Bubba taking hammer to bolt, to soak in oil and loosen rust.

I took action out of stock, sprayed down with good penetrating oil and cleaned what i could get at, flushed with more oil....nada.

gonna search more, but fear i'm off to a gunsmith.

Any suggestions?
 
Last edited:
Blue-Mule said:
first post here, been lurking awhile.

Took my Dads pre 64 model 70 out yesterday. It hasnt been shot in 30 years probably.
wanted to put some rounds through it and ring some long distance steel.

One reason i havent used it is the safety is stuck in FIRE posistion. After some reading i think i know why that is.

I load up 3 rounds and touch off the first round. it goes BANG and round shot is well off target.
I go to cycle action and bolt only rotates maybe 20 degrees and stops.
I fiddled with it a little, drop the 2 live rounds out bottom plate, fiddle some more...nada.

Pack up, go home, start searching the web for answers...LOTS about the safety issue, very little about bolt problem.The few hits i did get on bolt ranged from Bubba taking hammer to bolt, to soak in oil and loosen rust.

I took action out of stock, sprayed down with good penetrating oil and cleaned what i could get at, flushed with more oil....nada.

gonna search more, but fear i'm off to a gunsmith.

Any suggestions?
Click to expand...
Could it be the fired cartridge, in the rifles' chamber, ruptured, causing it to be stuck in the chamber??
 
Davers said:
Could it be the fired cartridge, in the rifles' chamber, ruptured, causing it to be stuck in the chamber??
Click to expand...
At this point, anything is possible.
The shells were brand new box of Hornady "Superperformance", so not junk ammo.
shot and sounded fine when it went off.

It "feels" like bolt is hanging up in back of action, near the sear, but its really hard to tell.
I'm wondering if the scred up safety has something to do with this.

If it is the brass, i guess i could carefully drop a cleaning rod down muzzle and try tapping case a bit?
 
DaveTooley said:
How difficult was it to rotate the 20 degrees?
Just quick SWAG pull the trigger, hold to the rear and try again.
Click to expand...
feels normal, then just starts to bind up.
I can see entire bolt body rotates that bit fine, claw seems loose enough.

I did try trigger and pushing sear up and cycling, no change.


ETA- just went and tried rotating AND holding trigger, nope.
HOWEVER, it actually rotates from full lock (down) up to exactly horizontal...so more like 45 degrees.


Thanks for the replies!
 
I'm assuming you didn't just fire the rifle without first cleaning it, so the chamber wasn't dirty or rusted. If you did just fire it without cleaning first, the case might just be stuck in the chamber. I would start out by using a rod to tap on the case while trying to open the bolt.
If you are certain the case is not stuck in the chamber, the problem may be with the cocking cam or cocking piece. I would remove the trigger and sear, then try again to open the bolt. It may be possible to push the cocking piece to the rear to take it out of play. If you can push the striker to the rear far enough, you should be able to engage the safety. All of this assumes you are able to hold the barreled action in a good, padded vice, because you will need both hands and be wishing for a third. WH
 
When you lift the bolt there is a little cam/plunger on the left side of the cocking piece that gets pushed unto the receiver unlocking the cocking piece
from the bolt. See if it is stuck.
 
Thanks for all the suggestions Everyone.

Yes, gun was cleaned spotless, several times over the years and again just a month ago...which is what got me interested in shooting it again.

Definitely not scope bases, those have been in place for 50+ years, have not been touched and never caused issue.

I doubt its the brass, but i'll try dropping rod in barrel and tapping it loose...easy and harmless.

I'll have to look into trigger/sear assembly/disassembly and see if its something i want to tackle. I've screwed around with triggers on some guns and thought about it with this one, but i saw its very different than something on a hanger or others i've seen.

Again, thanks for all the suggestions and ideas...VERY much appreciate it.
 
So, did some more research, took trigger and sear apart without any issues... nada.
just to be 100%, pulled scope mounts off...nada.
firing pin starts cocking on rotation, moves maybe 1/4" and then everything stops.

Looked up serial number, the gun was made in 52.
anyone have or know where there are schematics for bolt?
 
Blue-Mule said:
So, did some more research, took trigger and sear apart without any issues... nada.
just to be 100%, pulled scope mounts off...nada.
firing pin starts cocking on rotation, moves maybe 1/4" and then everything stops.

Looked up serial number, the gun was made in 52.
anyone have or know where there are schematics for bolt?
Click to expand...

The top photo is what your bolt looks like. Second photo is for your trigger assy.

I reckon you have it all straight but wing safety full forward to muzzle is fire, mid position safe / open bolt, all the way back toward butt, safe with bolt locked closed. It is just a cam.

A few taps with a mallet (not overly hard) on the bottom of the bolt handle to see if it continues to lift might be your next step. Unless something is jamming the locking lugs or keeping the extractor from rotating on bolt there isn’t much to keep it from turning.

Its out of the stock right?


Resized_Resized_20241213_160109.jpegIMG_5334.png
 
Last edited:
DR_2297 said:
The top photo is what your bolt looks like. Second photo is for your trigger assy.

I reckon you have it all straight but wing safety full forward to muzzle is fire, mid position safe / open bolt, all the way back toward butt, safe with bolt locked closed. It is just a cam.

A few taps with a mallet (not overly hard) on the bottom of the bolt handle to see if it continues to lift might be your next step. Unless something is jamming the locking lugs or keeping the extractor from rotating on bolt there isn’t much to keep it from turning.

Its out of the stock right?


View attachment 1635987View attachment 1635988
Click to expand...
Thanks, this helps clear up my mind a bit.

Yes out of stock.
I managed to push back on bottom of firing pin, where sear engages, and got safety working.... didn't help either..

I'm almost at a loss now for what's catching other than something broken off inside bolt, maybe the bottom of safety or as you suggest, something with extractor.

I might try a few lite hits with rawhide mallet in a few places to see if something gives, but I'm fairly certain I've gone as far as I can.


Thanks again Everyone that's tried helping.
Once I get it sorted out, I'll report back here to help the next guy that runs into this.
 
Last edited:
Mine are post 64, new versions of the old.

I can’t see anything on the trigger or bolt stop that would prevent the lugs from camming out of the recess. The ejector is depressed by the bolt body until the bolt has moved rearward.

Without a true pre 64 in hand, I would wonder if the retaining ring, item 9 might have failed or partially failed.

Pretty straightforward arrangement. The bolt slides down the recess, depresses the ejector tab, engages the cartridge and centers it via extractor to the boltface. Cartridge enters chamber and forward progress stops, bolt cams right at bolt close with lug engagement.

The extractor alignment is provided in part by the left side tab. Item 9 is the retainer ring. Rotating the extractor to the flat on the bolt face allows removal of the long portion, with the retainer and tab remaining on the bolt body, until removed by spreading the retainer and removing the alignment tab.

If the bolt stop and trigger are removed from the receiver, my thoughts are that the lugs should dis engage and cam over, releasing engagement. You might look with the trigger removed and make sure there’s nothing protruding from the bolt assy that is hitting the receiver slot the trigger engages into.

Without a true pre 64 in hand, I couldn’t speculate about the left side of the extractor assy. I would wonder if a failure could have released the tab enough to slide forward and prevent the lug from turning.
FD4438E7-4147-46CF-BC49-FEDA2A4DC0CD.jpeg2C9A4D55-D7D1-4D78-AC50-BAFDB7323A16.jpeg

It could as simple that the fired case is holding onto the chamber wall. As the lugs cam over to release, the extractor moves freely, once the lugs are clear, the extractor and bolt provide rearward pressure to move the case.
 
Blue-Mule said:
new box of Hornady "Superperformance
Click to expand...
What cartridge? I may have misssd it?

https://www.hornady.com/support/product-recalls/
Some old Hornady Ammo Recalls.

November 2010

Hornady Manufacturing Company is recalling one (1) lot of 30‑06 165gr SST Hornady Superformance™ Ammunition, Item #81153. This lot was shipped between the dates of 7‑19‑10 and 8‑3‑10.
Click to expand...

ITEM #81153, LOT #3101052​

Hornady Manufacturing Company ballisticians have determined that some cartridges from Lot #3101052 may exhibit excessive chamber pressures. Use of this product may result in firearm damage and or personal injury
 
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