Winchester Actions Pros/Cons

[drover]

The OP wants to build a 30-06. I don't think that a short action will work. A short action, not one of the pre-85 "short" actions.

I have a nice 260 Remington on a push feed. Nice hunting rifle.

I just wouldn't do a from scratch custom rifle on any factory action...unless I could do truing, bushing firing pin holes, etc, myself.

But, as anyone will tell you, I am a picky sort.

Greg,

I realize that I would be time ahead by just going to an aftermarket action, but locating parts & building to me is 3/4 of the fun on something like this. I can cover any needed machine work to the receiver, plus I'll own & get familiar with an M70. A win-win from my point of view . Could you explain what the difference is in action length as you said? Did Win. change the length in '85? What about the loading port length?

Winchester did not have a true short action prior to '85, they were all long actions with the magazine blocked to handle the short action cartridges such as 243, etc. They also used a different length bolt stop so that the bolt did not come back any further than necessary for the short action cartridges.

drover

 

[Toolbreaker]

Thanks, Drover. I think I'm getting it narrowed down to which rifles to look at for my application. I did find a picture of the pre-MOA trigger, and you're right...looks to be about as simple & straightforward as someone could ask for (heckuva lot simpler than the Savage I'm working on right now). I'd like to give the factory trigger a fair shake before I install an aftermarket.

 

[drover]

I am not 100% that is true, I will check my paper work, but I bought a true short barreled action in .243 in 1983 to build my highpower rifle, let me check the numbers.


The X-Man

I could be wrong on the exact year that they came out with the true short action, perhaps it was as early as '83 somehow I was thinking that it was '85 as I get older I find that my memory is less reliable. Personally I had quite a few of the "long" short actions that were made to handle cartridges as small as the 222 and they always performed just fine. The one that always amazed me was the 22 Hornet on the pre-64 actions, there were so many differences that I would be surprised if they even made any profit selling them.If there was anything wrong with the "long" short actions it was just a case of having an action that was overly large and heavy for short action cartridges.

drover

 

[drover]

The Post 64 actions don't have as much available parts as say a Remington 700. Make sure you have all the parts rounded up prior to your decision. It would be tough to buy an action and need a box and search and search and search and search and search and search and search and search and search and search and search and search and search and search and search and search and search and search and search

I do not understand your statement pertaining to parts availability for the Model 70.
If one wishes to build on a M-70 there are numerous replacement triggers available.
Barrels are barrels and can be threaded to fit either the M-70 or 700.
Practically anyone who makes stocks makes them for both M-70's and 700's.
M-70's have an integral recoil lugs so it is not necessary to buy aftermarket recoil lugs for them.

What else is there? What is the availability issue?

drover

Any M-70 actions I have worked on have always had the

Look for yourself, and try to find followers or mag parts

All the M-70's I have ever owned have had followers and mags so I do not consider that an issue.

The only time I have ever needed a follower was when I was building a post-64 push-feed, it was originally a 22/250 and I rebarreled it and chambered it to 6mm BR, it did not feed quite as reliably as I would have liked with the original 22/250 follower. On one of the forums I posted a Want To Buy ad for followers and springs and within a week I had acquired the different followers that had been available in the M-70's. I used one of the followers I purchased and ended up with a push-feed 6mm BR that fed perfectly and reliably something I have never been able to do with another stagger feed.

so long story - short; In my experience your perception of mags and followers availability as being an issue is simply that - a perception, not a fact.

drover

 

[drover]

Thanks, Drover. I think I'm getting it narrowed down to which rifles to look at for my application. I did find a picture of the pre-MOA trigger, and you're right...looks to be about as simple & straightforward as someone could ask for (heckuva lot simpler than the Savage I'm working on right now). I'd like to give the factory trigger a fair shake before I install an aftermarket.

When you get ready to do our trigger work Google - "Eddie The Gunsmith", he has spring kits for very reasonable prices and that will get you started in the right direction on your trigger work.

My apologies for sort of taking over your discussion but I have built numerous M-70's over the year and just wanted to share my experiences with you.

drover

 

[flatlander]

My 1st CF rifle was a M70 sporter in 243, bought NIB in 1968 for $123. I bought a used Weaver K4 for it, and 100pcs of used brass w/mixed headstamps, all from a retired rancher who was my mentor for handloading. He adjusted the m70's trigger down to a couple of pounds, and sold me bunches of Speer 80 PSP bullets for $3.25/box, WWII surplus H4831 for $.80/lb, and RWS Sinoxid primers in 250ct boxes.

After trying to shoot prairie dogs with Dad's old 'sporterized' '03-A3 with a K2.5 mounted, the M70 made me feel like I had the world by the tail on a downhill pull. I've always loved M70s; if the aftermarket suppliers had made the range of parts for them that they do for M700s, Winchester might still be in business. As it is now, I can get more aftermarket parts for Howa 1500 actions, and they have some of the best features of the old post-'64 M70 actions anyway. Too bad upper management at Winchester didn't have a better view of the market of the future.

 

[Toolbreaker]

When you get ready to do our trigger work Google - "Eddie The Gunsmith", he has spring kits for very reasonable prices and that will get you started in the right direction on your trigger work.

My apologies for sort of taking over your discussion but I have built numerous M-70's over the year and just wanted to share my experiences with you.

drover

Is it "Ernie The Gunsmith"? I found a pretty good selection there...

http://erniethegunsmith.com/index.html


No apologies needed at all...you & the rest are giving me exactly what I was looking for. I knew there were quite a few differences in the actions, but didn't know what all. Apparently more than I thought. I'm thinking that this'll turn out to be a pretty nice project when it's said & done. Thanks, again.

 

[wapiti25]

A very high percentage of the "NRA match rifles " were built on the M70 rifles both pre-64 control feed and post 64 push feed in the 80's. I used a push feed XTR to build my rifle and it was very smooth and never had a feed problem even during the rapid fire stages, I was shooting a 6.5-06. The Winchester and US Repeating Arm's built rifles are good when looking at non-custom actions. I have 2 pre-64 and 4 post which are push feed actions. I do not have any experience with the Browning or FN built actions.

 

[dryhumor]

The only issues I come across, are/is a reluctance, or lack of tooling on some smiths part to perform the extractor cut on the control feed actions/barrels.

On related side note, I finally scoped my XTR 30-06 yesterday and shot some factory ammo to get the scope set prior to load development. It's a keeper.

 

[flatlander]

I've still got a push-feed M70 with a 28" Krieger in 6 Dasher on it. Never had any luck getting it to eject short Dasher cases reliably, so I glued a single shot follower in. This was originally a 243, so it's got a bolt stop that restricts bolt throw, and the OEM magazine had a block installed that coincided with the bolt's travel. Initially, I bedded this bbl'd action into a surplus H-S Prec Laredo stock, and it shot really, really good, at least out to 600yds, which was about as far as I shot with it. I bought a used Jewell HVR M70 trigger, and though it took a little machine work on the OEM trigger guard & inletting on the stock to make it fit, it's more than worth that effort and the cost of a Jewell.

 

[drover]

Is it "Ernie The Gunsmith"? I found a pretty good selection there...

http://erniethegunsmith.com/index.html

/quote]

My oops - it is Ernie The Gunsmith, I should have had a second cup of coffee before typing.

drover