Will Higher Magnification Help Reduce Group Size
- Thread starter Poconolg
- Start date
Yes I think so
there are many other things that will shrink your groups.
better flags- you are using flags, right?
good rest and very good sand bags
bench manners
trigger--important
stock- do you have a round fore end or a flat benchrest style?
you wont be able to measure the gain of a 50x scope with out a caliper used to measure groups,
is the scope a big jump in clarity-yes
will you like it-yes
is it a good idea yo upgrade-yes
will your groups shrink -no -because you wont be able to measure it.
better flags- you are using flags, right?
good rest and very good sand bags
bench manners
trigger--important
stock- do you have a round fore end or a flat benchrest style?
you wont be able to measure the gain of a 50x scope with out a caliper used to measure groups,
is the scope a big jump in clarity-yes
will you like it-yes
is it a good idea yo upgrade-yes
will your groups shrink -no -because you wont be able to measure it.
I'll say it, but in a sense that it's nice to dial back on the
magnification when conditions get fugly......
MikeMcCasland
Team Texas F-T/R
The clarity of a new scope won't help you.
Jumping up to a 60 power will.
Jumping up to a 60 power will.
Kittitas George
Gold $$ Contributor
Good target definition is necessary. I hang my target with a level so the grid lines are plum and level. I use the highest power of the scope. The POA is the lower corner of a black square, my reticle is lined up vertical and horizontal with the grid. Using a small POA consistently is necessary to shoot tight groups. The point of impact I want is generally above the black square, on the vertical line. I will use 25X on my centerfire varmint guns for paper, but usually shoot prairie dogs and gophers under 20X to gain a a little more field of view. It is also very important to check the position of the gun on the front rest and rear bag, this must be consistent, change will cause a vertical change in POI.
I went from a 6-25X50 Vortex PST II, to a Vortex Golden Eagle 20-60X52. I was tossing around the idea of buying a spotting scope and then thought Hey get a high power scope it will do the same.
Well, it didn't. I found that at 600 and 1000 yds the 60 power was useless due to mirage on the ground and off my barrel. Anything over 40 power was blurred out by the mirage on a hot day or a hot barrel.
Now last week I shot 1000 yds and the temps were 32 degrees. For the first time I was able to use the 60 power and did not have any mirage issues until my barrel to up to 90 degrees, then it started to blurr out.
Not don't get me wrong, the GE with its 1/8MOA clicks made a big differance when adjusting the windage and elev to get on target. Also the reticle is much better than the Vortex Viper PST II.
In fact I just ordered another GE today from Vortex.
Well, it didn't. I found that at 600 and 1000 yds the 60 power was useless due to mirage on the ground and off my barrel. Anything over 40 power was blurred out by the mirage on a hot day or a hot barrel.
Now last week I shot 1000 yds and the temps were 32 degrees. For the first time I was able to use the 60 power and did not have any mirage issues until my barrel to up to 90 degrees, then it started to blurr out.
Not don't get me wrong, the GE with its 1/8MOA clicks made a big differance when adjusting the windage and elev to get on target. Also the reticle is much better than the Vortex Viper PST II.
In fact I just ordered another GE today from Vortex.
OP didn't say he wanted to shoot matches. He may be content to wait 5 minutes between shots, so that heat-waves are not an issue. It also depends on where you live. I know a bunch of guys who shoot nearly every local F-Class match at 40 - 50 x. Some have heat-wave shields on their barrels, some don't.
I think the real problem answering this question is we have no clue how clear his 23-year old Tasco is, or what kind of reticle it has. I have never even heard of a 9-32x50 Tasco.
HOWEVER, regardless, there is another factor that has not been mentioned, and that is, while I can usually shoot one of my cheaper 32x scopes at 100 yds as well as I can a more expensive, higher quality scope, it takes a lot more work, and it is not nearly as enjoyable an experience. I think for me and a lot of people, in the long run we shoot tighter groups with the expensive, high-quality scope, simple because it is a lot more fun to shoot that way, and that is esp. true if you are talking older eyes.
I think the real problem answering this question is we have no clue how clear his 23-year old Tasco is, or what kind of reticle it has. I have never even heard of a 9-32x50 Tasco.
HOWEVER, regardless, there is another factor that has not been mentioned, and that is, while I can usually shoot one of my cheaper 32x scopes at 100 yds as well as I can a more expensive, higher quality scope, it takes a lot more work, and it is not nearly as enjoyable an experience. I think for me and a lot of people, in the long run we shoot tighter groups with the expensive, high-quality scope, simple because it is a lot more fun to shoot that way, and that is esp. true if you are talking older eyes.
Biggest thing I have found in terms of testing a given rifle for accuracy is being able to positively without any doubt hold the aim point of the reticle exactly and repeatedly on the exact same repeated aim point on the target. Sometimes more magnification will do it, but sometimes not if the reticle/aiming point doesn't "jive" with the aiming point on the target. This is a requirement not just for testing, but really for shooting to the best possible accuracy with a given rifle setup.
jackieschmidt
Gold $$ Contributor
I can give you a perspective from a short range Group and Score Shooter.
For years, we had the very reliable Leupold 36BR, actually 3 different models through the years. These are still some of the clearest scopes I have ever looked through. Resolution was great. The crosshairs were extreme fine, the dot as small as 1/16.
There were other 36 offerings, but Leupold was by far the best.
Then Leupold came out with the Competition Serires in either 40 or 45x. The power race was on.
In the mean time, we all convinced ourselves that every scope on the planet was shifting in POI. That is when several viable External Adjustable Mounts came out, and many of us figured out ways to take the various scoops apart and freeze the erector tubes, removing any parts , thus cutting the weight down to compensate for the added weight of the external mounts. My specialty was freezing the Leupold 36x and the Weaver 36x. The weavers were particularly difficult because it was quite difficult just getting them apart.
To this day, if I suspect a Scope problem, I will mount one of my external adjustment frozen 36 Leupold on to see.
My scope freeze was permanent. You could not "unfreeze" it.
About that time, March came on the scene, and with some very astute marketing, hit the Short Range Crowd pretty strong. The first offerings were in 32x, 40x, and 50x. The 32 and 40 were very nice, they seemed to hold POI well and had great glass. The 50, however, while being solid, had terrible optics. Some of the worst ever offered in a Short Range Benchrest Scope.
Since the, others have hit the scene. Night Force a few years back, which did not last long because of only 42x power, and nothing particular special except the Nightforce name.
We are where we are now. March has new offerings, Weaver, Sightron, etc, Leupold has stuck with the 45x Comp series.
I still thing Leupold sets the standard for overall glass in the 45 Competiotion Series. The March High Master Series, which I have three, are close.
For years, we said that the only thing that mattered in a 100/200/300 yard Benchrest Dcope was it hold POI perfect. As long as we could see something to put the crosshairs on, that was fine.
Weight was always a big consideration. The original 36x Leupold was the lightest of all, barley hitting 17 ounces. As later models came out, weight went up. It seemed around 23 ounces was what most shooters could tolerate on a LV or Sporter NBRSA Rifle. So the manufacturers were were stuck at building a Scope with great optics, very reliable in holding POI, and not topping 23 ounces.
I like the March High Master Series. They are pricey, but seem to meet the three requirements I stated earlier.
Of course, I am talking strictly about Short Range Benchrest Scopes. If weight is of no consideration, the field is wide open. I have a old NightForce NXS 8x32 that is probably the finest Scope I ever owned, both in optics and solid internals. But the darn thing weights over 2 pounds, so it is just too darn heavy for a 10.5 Rifle.
For years, we had the very reliable Leupold 36BR, actually 3 different models through the years. These are still some of the clearest scopes I have ever looked through. Resolution was great. The crosshairs were extreme fine, the dot as small as 1/16.
There were other 36 offerings, but Leupold was by far the best.
Then Leupold came out with the Competition Serires in either 40 or 45x. The power race was on.
In the mean time, we all convinced ourselves that every scope on the planet was shifting in POI. That is when several viable External Adjustable Mounts came out, and many of us figured out ways to take the various scoops apart and freeze the erector tubes, removing any parts , thus cutting the weight down to compensate for the added weight of the external mounts. My specialty was freezing the Leupold 36x and the Weaver 36x. The weavers were particularly difficult because it was quite difficult just getting them apart.
To this day, if I suspect a Scope problem, I will mount one of my external adjustment frozen 36 Leupold on to see.
My scope freeze was permanent. You could not "unfreeze" it.
About that time, March came on the scene, and with some very astute marketing, hit the Short Range Crowd pretty strong. The first offerings were in 32x, 40x, and 50x. The 32 and 40 were very nice, they seemed to hold POI well and had great glass. The 50, however, while being solid, had terrible optics. Some of the worst ever offered in a Short Range Benchrest Scope.
Since the, others have hit the scene. Night Force a few years back, which did not last long because of only 42x power, and nothing particular special except the Nightforce name.
We are where we are now. March has new offerings, Weaver, Sightron, etc, Leupold has stuck with the 45x Comp series.
I still thing Leupold sets the standard for overall glass in the 45 Competiotion Series. The March High Master Series, which I have three, are close.
For years, we said that the only thing that mattered in a 100/200/300 yard Benchrest Dcope was it hold POI perfect. As long as we could see something to put the crosshairs on, that was fine.
Weight was always a big consideration. The original 36x Leupold was the lightest of all, barley hitting 17 ounces. As later models came out, weight went up. It seemed around 23 ounces was what most shooters could tolerate on a LV or Sporter NBRSA Rifle. So the manufacturers were were stuck at building a Scope with great optics, very reliable in holding POI, and not topping 23 ounces.
I like the March High Master Series. They are pricey, but seem to meet the three requirements I stated earlier.
Of course, I am talking strictly about Short Range Benchrest Scopes. If weight is of no consideration, the field is wide open. I have a old NightForce NXS 8x32 that is probably the finest Scope I ever owned, both in optics and solid internals. But the darn thing weights over 2 pounds, so it is just too darn heavy for a 10.5 Rifle.
I only shoot 100 yard. I'd rather not think of how many scopes I've purchased over the years.
Of course they have to hold the POI. And I prefer a fine reticle to divide the target the way I like. So I've all of these great scopes for my 100 yard BR shooting and I found those that are the BRIGHTEST are the best for me. Brightest I have is a Bushnell. Seems as if it as batteries in it. March, Leupold, etc. were ok but not as bright to my eyes by a lot. Actually my 45 Leupold seems dark. I shoot in the two's frequently and in the ones when every condition surpasses my inadequacies. ( 2 30BR's and a 222)
Of course they have to hold the POI. And I prefer a fine reticle to divide the target the way I like. So I've all of these great scopes for my 100 yard BR shooting and I found those that are the BRIGHTEST are the best for me. Brightest I have is a Bushnell. Seems as if it as batteries in it. March, Leupold, etc. were ok but not as bright to my eyes by a lot. Actually my 45 Leupold seems dark. I shoot in the two's frequently and in the ones when every condition surpasses my inadequacies. ( 2 30BR's and a 222)
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