Will a reasonably priced Spotting Scope see the bullet holes?

[kwgman]

Hello! New to the Forum. I hope this is posted in the right place. If not, please let me know and I will repost.

Will a reasonably priced Spotting Scope see the bullet holes?

I am a 76 year old non-competitive benchrest shooter with fairly good eyesight (for my age). My benchrest range goes out to 200yds. I shoot 22LR, 223 or 243 with target/varmint barrels. My goal is to compete with myself to achieve the tightest groups possible through the improved selection of ammunition, reload selection, rifle modification, and shooting technique.

I currently own a 8 year old Barska 20-60x60 spotting scope that is very disappointing ($160 when purchased). When viewing a white bullseye at 100yds., the bullet holes are barely discernable and with a black bullseye not visible at all; even at 50yds. The scope does not pass enough light or have the resolution to make the image discernable.

I am going to replace this scope, but need to make sure that the replacement will accomplish my goal. I cannot afford to make a mistake. This scope will not be used for hunting.

I can afford around $1000 and am currently looking at the Vortex Viper HD 20-60x85 and the Celestron Regal M2 100 ED 22-67x100 Spotting scopes. Both scopes have very good reviews, but none of the reviews address just what you can see at a given distance.

Can any current owners of these or other comparable spotting scopes verify that either of these scopes will show clear bright bullet holes at 200yds.

Your comments and recommendations would be greatly appreciated,

Karl

 

[centershot]

Karl,
I do not have an answer for you, but share the same problem. I have a Kowa spotting scope from the '60s. It is 25 power and I, also, am having a problem with my 70 year old eyes. I also do not compete, but want to see my bullet holes! I have a hard time spending $500 for a scope, so where does one draw the line on this? All of the inexpensive spotting scopes say 60 power. But with zero quality, who cares what the power is?

Hopefully, we will both get an answer.

Gary

 

[jelenko]

I have a Regal M2 ED 80mm objective and have had my lenses replaced due to cataracts - i.e., my eyesight is pretty good.

In direct sunlight and NO mirage, I can see 223 holes at 100 yards; in shade, some yes, some no. As mirage increases, fewer shot holes are visible.

At 200 yards, it just gets tougher.

A 100mm objective should provide more light => see the holes better. I'm seeing 100mm Regal M2 ED's for less than $1000.

I would buy from a place that accepts returns if you're not satisfied with no penalty.
I know that MidwayUSA and Optics Planet both accept returns for refund [within a specific time] for 'satisfaction'.

 

[rwj]

One could buy a TargetVision Long Shot Marksman camera system for under $500 that works out to 300 yards (https://www.longshotcameras.com/products/marksman-1). You’ll have no problem seeing bullet holes!

 

[6ShotsOr5?]

One could buy a TargetVision Long Shot Marksman camera system for under $500 that works out to 300 yards (https://www.longshotcameras.com/products/marksman-1). You’ll have no problem seeing bullet holes!

I’ve got a Vortex Razor 80mm scope and the longer range version TargetVision camera which I have so far only used to 600 yds. I prefer the camera for seeing bullet impacts but you can’t see mirage with it, so sometimes I use both the spotter and the camera. The only problem I have seen with using the camera is you need good line of sight between the camera at the target and the base unit at the firing line which means you might need to raise the camera up a foot or two if the range hasn’t been mowed in a while.

 

[caihlen]

I’ve got a Vortex Razor 80mm scope and the longer range version TargetVision camera which I have so far only used to 600 yds. I prefer the camera for seeing bullet impacts but you can’t see mirage with it, so sometimes I use both the spotter and the camera. The only problem I have seen with using the camera is you need good line of sight between the camera at the target and the base unit at the firing line which means you might need to raise the camera up a foot or two if the range hasn’t been mowed in a while.

This. Scope for mirage and wind calls. TargetVision for impacts. I can effectively practice with this setup.

 

[SSE]

Check to see if Bushnell still makes the 15-45X Spacemaster. Just the Spacemaster all the other spotting scopes by Bushnell are c**p. If they don't you might find one on ebay. I think I paid $150. You can see 22 holes at 200 easy. If the light is not good then it is hard to see the holes in the black. I use targets that have the least amount of black as possible. You will save a ton of money and be very happy.

 

[wkdickinson]

I have a 77mm Kowa from the 90''s with a 25X EER eyepiece. I can see .223 bullet holes at 200 yds., most of the time. But it is very dependant on the light. I will say from experience, that I can often see bullet holes that people with other scopes can't and have never had a situation where they could and I couldn't.

I think with optics, like most things, you get what you pay for, or at least, if you don't pay for it, you don't get it.

 

[leclairk]

I own a Vortex Viper HD 20-60x85. I’m 45 with good vision and I can see .223 hits at 200 if the weather is ideal. It’s not easy though. I think I paid $500 for the scope used off this forum. I would be concerned that you would struggle to see the hits. Ideally you would step up a bit and look for a Razor HD. Seems like I have seen some on this forum in the $1000 range. Can’t speak to how much better the Razor would be but it might be enough for you.

 

[jpx2rk]

I have a Celstron 20x60 spotting scope and I can see 20 cal holes at 100 yds fairly easy, 22 and 6mm holes even better. At 200 yds, it becomes more difficult but still doable. I'm 65, have crappy eyes, (cataracts, astigmatism, floaters & tri-focals). At 200 yds and beyond, you might try those splatter type targets that change to the ugly green to make it easier to see the holes. I use these at 200 some times, but I can see 22 cal holes at 200yds if light conditions are right for me. I use white background targets with gray diamonds, or orange/red diamonds that show up best for me. Orange/red/bright green peel & stick dots help with POA.

 

[243Lapua]

Get yourself a good used Kowa TSN -1 I have seen them even below $1000.00. Very good quality. I think I even saw one in the threads that was for sale.

 

[sawcarver]

We do a local 200m varmint match, most of the targets are orange varmints on white background, seeing 22 cal holes with a vortex razor or with burris XTRII 8-40x or sightron 10-50x scopes are pretty easy. But the black crow we shoot it is almost impossible unless the light conditions are right. Sometime you can see a cut scoring line but not complete bullet holes. Even 30 cal holes can be very hard to see

 

[Gater]

Hello! New to the Forum. I hope this is posted in the right place. If not, please let me know and I will repost.

Will a reasonably priced Spotting Scope see the bullet holes?

I am a 76 year old non-competitive benchrest shooter with fairly good eyesight (for my age). My benchrest range goes out to 200yds. I shoot 22LR, 223 or 243 with target/varmint barrels. My goal is to compete with myself to achieve the tightest groups possible through the improved selection of ammunition, reload selection, rifle modification, and shooting technique.

I currently own a 8 year old Barska 20-60x60 spotting scope that is very disappointing ($160 when purchased). When viewing a white bullseye at 100yds., the bullet holes are barely discernable and with a black bullseye not visible at all; even at 50yds. The scope does not pass enough light or have the resolution to make the image discernable.

I am going to replace this scope, but need to make sure that the replacement will accomplish my goal. I cannot afford to make a mistake. This scope will not be used for hunting.

I can afford around $1000 and am currently looking at the Vortex Viper HD 20-60x85 and the Celestron Regal M2 100 ED 22-67x100 Spotting scopes. Both scopes have very good reviews, but none of the reviews address just what you can see at a given distance.

Can any current owners of these or other comparable spotting scopes verify that either of these scopes will show clear bright bullet holes at 200yds.

Your comments and recommendations would be greatly appreciated,

Karl

I use a Sightron 8x32 and what I do is put a white piece of construction paper on a piece of stuff cardboard then put a 1” orange sticker every 4” shoot 5 shots at each and can see holes pretty good

Hello! New to the Forum. I hope this is posted in the right place. If not, please let me know and I will repost.

Will a reasonably priced Spotting Scope see the bullet holes?

I am a 76 year old non-competitive benchrest shooter with fairly good eyesight (for my age). My benchrest range goes out to 200yds. I shoot 22LR, 223 or 243 with target/varmint barrels. My goal is to compete with myself to achieve the tightest groups possible through the improved selection of ammunition, reload selection, rifle modification, and shooting technique.

I currently own a 8 year old Barska 20-60x60 spotting scope that is very disappointing ($160 when purchased). When viewing a white bullseye at 100yds., the bullet holes are barely discernable and with a black bullseye not visible at all; even at 50yds. The scope does not pass enough light or have the resolution to make the image discernable.

I am going to replace this scope, but need to make sure that the replacement will accomplish my goal. I cannot afford to make a mistake. This scope will not be used for hunting.

I can afford around $1000 and am currently looking at the Vortex Viper HD 20-60x85 and the Celestron Regal M2 100 ED 22-67x100 Spotting scopes. Both scopes have very good reviews, but none of the reviews address just what you can see at a given distance.

Can any current owners of these or other comparable spotting scopes verify that either of these scopes will show clear bright bullet holes at 200yds.

Your comments and recommendations would be greatly appreciated,

Karl

i use an 8x32 Sightron at 200 I take a piece of thick card board glue a white piece of paper
Construction paper works good comes in sheets bout 30x34 glue it on the card board then put those orange stickers that have cross hairs on them (midway) shoot 5 shots at each you can see the bullet holes pretty good then just use white pasters to cover holes when done and shoot some more if you put them 4” apart you can get 5 across and down the card board last for a lot of shots take the cardboard and mount it to a for sale sign frame

 

[jelenko]

The bottom line remains: With reasonably good glass, you can see some, maybe many, 223 holes at 100 with good light.
Less than good light/with mirage the number of holes visible decreases; depending on the light/mirage - decreases a lot.
200 is just the same but less of everything.

=> Some days you'll see lots/all of the holes at 100; other days not very much. At 200 you're just going to see less than what you would at 100.

 

[CharlieNC]

With all of my rifle scopes I can see bullet holes at 200yd, so I rarely setup the spotter.

 

[Evan]

I've used splatter target stickers for years to assist in spotting. Can buy a big package of 3" targets and have it last a long time.

Apart from that, lower end spotting scopes have been hit or miss for me. Vortex Razor HD is probably as low as I'd go. The one I borrowed was great.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Hello! New to the Forum. I hope this is posted in the right place. If not, please let me know and I will repost.

Will a reasonably priced Spotting Scope see the bullet holes?

I am a 76 year old non-competitive benchrest shooter with fairly good eyesight (for my age). My benchrest range goes out to 200yds. I shoot 22LR, 223 or 243 with target/varmint barrels. My goal is to compete with myself to achieve the tightest groups possible through the improved selection of ammunition, reload selection, rifle modification, and shooting technique.

I currently own a 8 year old Barska 20-60x60 spotting scope that is very disappointing ($160 when purchased). When viewing a white bullseye at 100yds., the bullet holes are barely discernable and with a black bullseye not visible at all; even at 50yds. The scope does not pass enough light or have the resolution to make the image discernable.

I am going to replace this scope, but need to make sure that the replacement will accomplish my goal. I cannot afford to make a mistake. This scope will not be used for hunting.

I can afford around $1000 and am currently looking at the Vortex Viper HD 20-60x85 and the Celestron Regal M2 100 ED 22-67x100 Spotting scopes. Both scopes have very good reviews, but none of the reviews address just what you can see at a given distance.

Can any current owners of these or other comparable spotting scopes verify that either of these scopes will show clear bright bullet holes at 200yds.

Your comments and recommendations would be greatly appreciated,

Karl

You don’t need to spend much to see bullet holes at 200 yards and even much further if you know what to buy. For anything 300 yards and under, my high power Trijicon riflescopes will easily see the holes. Can even see holes out further if conditions are good.

I have owned two different Meopta S2 HD 82mm spotters (one with 20-70 ep and one with 30-60WA ep), Vortex Razor HD spotter, and even the renowned Swarovski ATX with 95mm objective and 1.7x magnification extender. I sold all of them.

I used to do all of my load testing at 500 yards and have recently moved the target back even further to 635 yards for all my load testing. I have used the Meopta S2 and Swarovski ATX 95 to spot holes at 500 yards during testing. Both did well with a slight nod going to the Meopta because it handled any mirage and detail in low light slightly better.

So why did I sell those top of the line spotters with such great glass? Well I stumbled upon some old forgotten optics that will easily compete with the best European glass on the market today.
The answer to all you need is Nikon Fieldscope ED. But NOT the new Nikon stuff, the old Japanese built ED field scopes from 20-30 years ago. Those are the forgotten gems that can be found for very cheap prices online.

I purchased an old first gen Nikon 60ED P compact spotter a few years ago as a pack scope. It came with a fixed 20x eyepiece and a fixed 40x eyepiece. I paid only $200 for the whole setup straight from a seller in Japan. The glass is absolutely phenomenal with vibrant colors and razor sharp edge to edge resolution.

The last time I shot test loads with a 300 NMI rifle at 635 yards, all I had on hand for a spotter was the little 60mm Nikon ED spotter. I had never used it for spotting bullet holes in targets because it only has 40x magnification capability but it was my only chance so I set it up and dialed in on the target. With the 40x ep, the target focused in razor sharp and detailed as everything else does so my confidence was high. I fired my first 3 round group then got up and looked thru the little Nikon. To my surprise, the bullet holes were so clearly visible in the off-white color paper that it blew my mind! I fired another 3 shot group and looked again. The holes were even perfectly visible in the black lines of the little sticky target I had on the paper! Without a doubt, the little 30 year old 60mm Japanese ED spotter was showing bullet holes much better than I had ever been able to see with the Meopta S2 or Swarovski ATX 95mm. I just couldn’t believe it. How was this possible??? Such a small objective with only 40x magnification was outperforming the most expensive European glass with magnification capabilities of 70x or more!!! The Nikon wasn’t just a little better at seeing the holes, I mean it was NIGHT AND DAY difference! Not kidding in the least.

I continued my shooting session testing loads and hand mapping out the groups with a pen and paper to keep track of impact points. The little Nikon could pick out the holes so clearly that it seemed nearly effortless for the glass. Absolutely unreal!

I have since purchased another old Japanese built Nikon 78mm ED Fieldscope. It is equally amazing. Got it with a 25-56x zoom eyepiece and fixed 75x wide angle eyepiece straight from Japan again for only $599 shipped. In all my years of playing with some of the best optics in the world, I have never seen such amazing glass for such a cheap price as these old forgotten Nikon ED spotters. Even with price not being a consideration at all, I would put this glass up against the best European optics in the world in all situations and I know it would easily perform right there with them and even better in many situations.

After my surreal experience spotting holes at 635 yards, I looked up old reviews on the Nikon ED spotters from back in the day. This was back before any of us even really knew what ED glass was. I wanted to make sure I didn’t have some extremely rare cherry glass and/or confirm I wasn’t going crazy. Lol.
I was not very surprised to find that many bird watchers revered and treasured the Nikon 60mm and 78mm ED spotters and hailed them as the glass benchmark by which all other spotters were judged. Even when compared to the Swarovski ATS/STS HD spotters that were new to the market during the reign of the Nikon, the old Japanese Nikon ED always matched or bested them in any lighting or weather situation to maintain their reputation as the spotter to beat. In my experience so far, I would say that they are still one hell of a high benchmark for any modern spotter to meet or compete with.

Here are som pics of me spotting bullet holes with the little 60mm Nikon ED and one of the targets with a ladder test while shooting at 635 yards. The load in the pic hasn’t been fully tuned for accuracy but it has good consistent POI across the charge weights with N570. Need to tune seating depth to hopefully find better accuracy.

 

[rjtfroggy]

If I may ask, where are you finding these older Nikons?

 

[Ledd Slinger]

If I may ask, where are you finding these older Nikons?

eBay. I always check seller feedback rating and order from people with really high or perfect rating. The Japan based seller I bought my last Nikon 78ED spotter from about a month ago had a 100% positive rating and the scope was on my doorstep in 4 days. Really fast shipping from another country clean across the Pacific, especially considering shipping issues with the Covid BS.

Funny thing is that I would not say the 78ED is any better than the 60ED. You would think the larger objective would be superior but that little 60mm Nikon packs some serious punch. However, I would have to test identical eyepieces in them to have a fair comparison. Unfortunately the 60mm is from the first generation they made of the ED Fieldscope. The 78mm has a slightly different eyepiece design, perhaps a second generation scope. I know my 78mm eyepieces won’t fit in the 60mm but haven’t tried the 60mm ep’s in the 78. They do make both objective sizes in all generations and I believe all second and third generation 60 and 78 scope eyepieces are interchangeable. Nikon also made a 82mm back then but I have never been able to find one at a very affordable price or good condition. There was an old style Japanese built 82mm Fieldscope listed on the accurate shooter classifieds for a very fair price of around $700 with eyepieces and case not long ago but I was a few minutes too late in laying claim to it. Whoever bought the scope got a great deal on some amazing glass.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

The only downside for my preference is that the old Fieldscopes are usually only found in a straight configuration. Some people prefer straight so that would not be a downside to them. Just gotta have a tripod big and steady enough if you want to view standing up. But with how great the glass is for the money, having a straight scope is a compromise I’m willing to make.

Some of the 78 and 82s can be found in an angled configuration but they are usually more expensive or so beat up from many years of use and abuse that I wouldn’t trust their quality.