Why rimless auto rounds in revolvers?

[mike mccormick]

Reloads with moon clips are slicker than snake guts. I have a 325trr S&W in 45acp, and it is a joy to run fast. Very accurate.

 

[Steel Mover]

My 25-2 in 45 ACP was very fast with full moon clips that I vould just stick on my belt. And it gave me the same cartridges to shoot in my auto and revolver gun in competition, that was handy.
I had a 357/9mm and was not impressed with it. If you wanted a 10/41 with two cylinders then OK, but the 41 Mag will beat the 10 hands down without even trying. Then you can load the 41 down. Too much sugar for a dime.

 

[DShortt]

A friend of mine shoots 45ACP in a revolver with moon clips in competition.
I don't completely understand the reasons but I do know he places well in those competitions.

 

[357Mag]

For you revolver aficionados; what are the practical reasons to owning a revolver in 10mm, .45 acp, etc...? I understood the reasoning back during the world wars with .45 acp, but why now? 10mm isn't very economical, and it's outclassed by most commonly available revolver chamberings. I completely understand the whole variety is the spice and whatnot. But if there's two Smiths sitting next to each other why would you take the 10mm over the .41 (let's pretend ammo is plentiful for both)? I like 10mm as well, but I'll have it in an auto personally.

Adam -

Howdy !

IMHO -
.40 S & W could be viewed as today's version of the olde tymee .38-40 WCF.
It is one way of getting useful and proven " stopping power, via a blended cartridge characteristics approach.... enough bullet cal & wt... propelled by the enough vel....
with a level of recoil tolerable to a large cross section of users.... and sufficient number of
rounds at the ready to be useful.

I don't think either the 10mm auto or .41 Magnum should serve for comparison to the
.40 S&W. Back when the .41Mag was first offered as a self defense round, even the factory " downloaded " lead bullet ammo proved too vehement for most shooters; and the round simply gravitated towards being mostly a handgun hunting round.
The 10mm auto also proved to be a bit too much for wide scale adoption,
Jeff Cooper's high marks for the round notwithstanding.

IF looking a notional .40S&W revolver for use as a CCW, that chambering would give the same sorts of pluses in a revolver, that it does in a semi-auto.... as regards things like deliverable energy, reasonable recoil, variety & availability of good self defense ammo;
et al. An option for a shooter that wants to go the revolver route.

Great things can be accomplished when using full moon clips to hold revolver ammo,
as Jerry Miculek has shown.


With regards,
357Mag

 

[Fuj]

I shot mainly Smith .357 revolvers in IPSC competition. My Mod-25 45acp,
I used in certain close in match's that favored speed loading. Full moon clips
was fast. I tinkered with a full moon 9mm in a re-chambered Mod-15 with
custom hard cast 150 gr bullets. Those were the days......

 

[xr650rRider]

Watch Jerry reload and you'll know why rimless in revolver.

 

[Bob R]

Waaaaay Back in the early 1990's I got back into Rural Law Enforcement. I carried a S&W 610 Revolver for a couple reasons. One back in the day the Tex Shoemaker Break Front Holster was the best option in a Security Holster that you could get the gun out of in a hurry. Reason Two, my gun fights were all with deer hit by vehicles. Full Power 10mm did a very good job on injured deer. It was hard even back then to find 10mm Ammunition that was not watered down.
I had a custom Quad Ammunition Pouch made that carried 2 Moon Clips up and 2 moon clips down for a total of Four Reloads in a compact carrier. I also carried more Moon Clip reloads in jacket pockets in the Winter, and more in the glove box if needed.
Today I would go with a Glock 20. Two reloads on the belt and a couple more in the glove box.
Security holsters have came a long way in the last 30 years.

I have also owned a 9mm SP101, Moon Clip Cut S&W 66, Moon Clip Cut 38 Special SP101, S&W 25's in 4", 6" and 6-1/2", a couple 625's, a 627-8 shot, and the S&W 610. Did I mention that I like revolvers a lot.
EDIT: add a Webley and a S&W 1917 to that list.

Bob R

 

[357Mag]

For you revolver aficionados; what are the practical reasons to owning a revolver in 10mm, .45 acp, etc...? I understood the reasoning back during the world wars with .45 acp, but why now? 10mm isn't very economical, and it's outclassed by most commonly available revolver chamberings. I completely understand the whole variety is the spice and whatnot. But if there's two Smiths sitting next to each other why would you take the 10mm over the .41 (let's pretend ammo is plentiful for both)? I like 10mm as well, but I'll have it in an auto personally.

All -

I had sometimes wondered whether Jerry Miculek could be even faster on revolver reloading, IF a shouldered rimless wildcat could be employed, along w/ full moon clips?
Idea being… the neck OD of the shouldered case would load rather easily into the comparatively larger diam entry of the chambers.

Some years back, I formed a couple of wildcat’s of my own design, to send to
Mr. Miculek; for his review. One was rimmed, the other rimless. When I called to tell him what was being sent, I reached his wife; as Jerry was away @ the time. She told me it would be fine to send Jerry the sample cases.

The rimmed wildcat was: .357Mag necked-down to .32” caliber.

The rimless wildcat was: A shortened .35 Remington case, necked-down to .357” cal.
The base diam of the .35Remington is pretty much the same as that of a .44Mag .
In essence, this .357” cal wildcat would / could be a rimless version of a .357Bain & Davis; or ….even as a .357” cal wildcat formed on a shorter length case ( one example... .44Spl length ).

The extractor groove of the .35 Remington-based wildcat fit .45ACP moon clips, so I sent those sample inert cases to Mr. Miculek already loaded in 3ea moon clips.

Both wildcats could be tested for ease of loading….. the .32-.357Mag tested using a
.357Mag revolver, the .357-.44 wildcat tested using an ( example ) .44Mag revolver.

For whatever reason, I never did hear anything back from Jerry.


With regards,
357Mag

 

[ezekeial]

1-Having 45 acp revolver allows you to shoot revolvers without getting into another cartridge, if you already are shooting 45 acp.
2-For some, there is a real benefit to more positive ejection of shorter spent cases
3-Lot more common to find 45 acp brass at range than most revolver brass
4-Lets ya shoot 45 acp without losing your brass (winter/crowded range etc) Important in NW Wi.
5-identifies ya as official old time aficionado who knows there are 45 acp revolvers

 

[hoz53]

For you revolver aficionados; what are the practical reasons to owning a revolver in 10mm, .45 acp, etc...? I understood the reasoning back during the world wars with .45 acp, but why now? 10mm isn't very economical, and it's outclassed by most commonly available revolver chamberings. I completely understand the whole variety is the spice and whatnot. But if there's two Smiths sitting next to each other why would you take the 10mm over the .41 (let's pretend ammo is plentiful for both)? I like 10mm as well, but I'll have it in an auto personally.

for many years my fave pistols to shoot were 1911s in 45acp. I dont want to pick brass any more though so i mostly shoot revolvers. I have had a 625 since 1980s that is basicly unused and now it will get some use shooting up all the 45acp components i have. i dont really like loading/unloading the moon clips but its better than bending over to pic empties.

 

[Oso]

If you want a large hole, mild recoil, and readily available components then 45ACP makes sense. Yes, you can download a traditional cartridge, such as 44 Mag, but this is a large case with minimal case fill. Nothing wrong with this, but why limit yourself to just one cartridge or one revolver

Did I mention that moon clips are a fraction of the cost of buying speed loaders. For competition shooters this makes loading faster as well as taking up less real estate to carry. …and it’s Cool!

 

[outasite`08]

A friend owns a model 25 in 45 acp. Its the smoothest shooting revolver I have even shot. Im on the look out for one. I love my 44s but 3 grains of bullseye and a 230 slug just recoils different than a 44 special even.

I have a 4" 625. Fun and accurate gun to shoot. I carried it hunting lots in a drop thigh holster. Can be loaded for snake work as well.

 

[c3d4b2]

I always was curious about the 45 acp in a revolver. While pervaying YouTube the other day I ran across a video about the combination. The cliff notes version was they couldn't make enough 1911's and added revolvers to the offerings.

 

[ISS]

c3d4b2,

exactly. S&W had the M1917, Colt had the New Service revolvers, no tooling up. For the War they made half moon and even third moon clips. After the War ended they issued them to the Post Office; office and rail car staff.

The NRA still holds three-gun matches, 22lr, any caliber center fire (usually 38spl), and specific 45 acp.

My older brother made a Winter carry gun about 50 years ago out of a S&W M28. He had a 3" 45 barrel fit, bored the cylinder to 45acp and then cera coated silver. Gun in one Field Jacket pocket, couple full moon clips in the other; good to go. I inherited it about three years ago when he passed, along with a NIB 6.5" M25 Target model.

ISS

 

[JSH]

My reason, they don’t stove pipe.

 

[Springer2]

We have a Ruger blackhawk 9mm/357, a 625 in 45 ACP, and 3 revolvers in 10mm. The 9mm/357 was an opportunity buy but the others I was actively looking for when I bought them. I was shooting PPC matches and my scores went up when I started using the 625 not to mention how much easier it was to recover my brass. I was looking for a 610 Smith but they were out of production and the prices were high when I found a blackhawk 38-40/10mm. It shot great and then Ruger offered the Super Redhawk in 10mm so it was next and finally Smith started making the 610 again so it was added. Love the 10mm revolvers. They are all accurate and have good, usable power. What is not to like?