Just curious as to why its never mentioned as often as the 175 SMK and all the Berger stuff. One would think that as long as the 30 cal. 168 was "the" bullet for lots of shooters for a very long time that the 7mm variant would have gained a lot of popularity as well, for ranges out to 600 or so at least.
Why no love for the 7mm 168 SMK?
- Thread starter I_shoot_for_fun
- Start date
You will see a lot of guys running the 168 in 7RM for hunting. It really optimizes the caliber. The bench rest crowd really enjoy specific bullet weights for specific calibers, so the 168 just isn't there from what I have read. They generally go straight to the 180 due to the added security of less wind deflection at range.
Shynloco
You can lead a horse to water, but ........
Personally I believe that Berger is the latest thing on the market that works well in SOME rifles. I'm into accuracy shooting and have tried the Bergers in various calibers I own, upon the recommendations of others who found success with the Bergers. Frankly I'm disappointed by the results most Bergers have brought me which is why I returned to the good ole reliable Sierra's that have brought me success. Even some of the Lapua's haven't been as good as the Sierra's. Each to his own I guess. BTW, some of my shooting partners have expressed similar disappointment with the Bergers as well. Each to his own I guess.
holstil
Silver $$ Contributor
It is pretty much what liltank said for me.
I just built a 7-08 ack and would like to see what it can do stretched out. I think the 180 I enjoy from my 284 imp. is too heavy for the lil case and I'm not sure there is an advantage in the lighter weights.
The 260 can shoot a 140gr .317 bc, while the 7mm 168 is only .316 bc (speaking of bergers). Not sure, but I think at about the same speed.
Same thing applies to Sierra. I shoot both bullets. I'll shoot what ever the gun likes, but I can't make myself pay for scenars.
I would love to see Berger make a 160 to 170gr hybrid just for the 7-08 and variants.
My thoughts.
I just built a 7-08 ack and would like to see what it can do stretched out. I think the 180 I enjoy from my 284 imp. is too heavy for the lil case and I'm not sure there is an advantage in the lighter weights.
The 260 can shoot a 140gr .317 bc, while the 7mm 168 is only .316 bc (speaking of bergers). Not sure, but I think at about the same speed.
Same thing applies to Sierra. I shoot both bullets. I'll shoot what ever the gun likes, but I can't make myself pay for scenars.
I would love to see Berger make a 160 to 170gr hybrid just for the 7-08 and variants.
My thoughts.
Like LloydX2 says it was a good, go to bullet back in the 80's and up into the early 90's for the 280, & 7mmRem Mag guys shooting 1000yards prone. (It saw some success at Camp Perry with Match Rifle shooters shooting it the 7mm08 at 600 yards as well.) At the time it was a great bullet. But like most things there is something new that has outclassed it in performance.
I wouldnt go as far as Wild Child saying it Sucks, but his point is well taken, there are alot of better choices now that we have moved into 2012. XTR also points out something of VALUE if you will, the AMAX 162 can be purchased for equal or less money and it seems to shoot inside of the 168gr SMK for wind drift.
When Ifirst started shooting long range I barrowed a rifle from a friend, it was Beutiful Time PRecision action on a Mcmillian Stock chambered in 7mm Remington Magnum shooting 168gr SMK's, It shot awsome. Took me several years to get a rifle to shoot as well as that rifle did.
I seem to remember some shooting it (168grSMK) in Rifle Sillhouttee at the 500Meter Rams in the 80's and 90;s as well.
Im a little confused on your corralation to the 30cal bullet and the 7mm bullet though? Other than both comming in a green box thats about it.
If I had some onthe shelf I would shoot them. If not I might just move onto another bullet.
RussT
I wouldnt go as far as Wild Child saying it Sucks, but his point is well taken, there are alot of better choices now that we have moved into 2012. XTR also points out something of VALUE if you will, the AMAX 162 can be purchased for equal or less money and it seems to shoot inside of the 168gr SMK for wind drift.
When Ifirst started shooting long range I barrowed a rifle from a friend, it was Beutiful Time PRecision action on a Mcmillian Stock chambered in 7mm Remington Magnum shooting 168gr SMK's, It shot awsome. Took me several years to get a rifle to shoot as well as that rifle did.
I seem to remember some shooting it (168grSMK) in Rifle Sillhouttee at the 500Meter Rams in the 80's and 90;s as well.
Im a little confused on your corralation to the 30cal bullet and the 7mm bullet though? Other than both comming in a green box thats about it.
If I had some onthe shelf I would shoot them. If not I might just move onto another bullet.
RussT
Rtheurer, my reference to the 30 cal. 168 SMK is that for many years we have all read something along the lines of..."if it won't shoot with the 168 SMK and a charge of X grains of Y powder, the gun has a problem; don't waste time trying to fix it"...or something similar. I don't think I've ever heard anything similar regarding the 7mm variant.
I realize that there are newer bullets requiring faster twists than what would have been considered "normal" years ago and that they are the current darlings of the 7mm bullet world. Many of them are run at longer ranges than my 1st reference limiting the distance to 600 yards or so. They are highly specialized and developed for that target in the next zip code over. I can appreciate and understand that.
And the change to heavier bullets is not limited to bigger calibers, either. Look how much we're reading about 75, 80 and even in some cases 90 grain bullets for the .224 family of bullets. I'll wager that 15 years ago you'd be laughed at if you said you wanted to run an 80 grainer in a 223. 69 grain, certainly; but 80 or 90? No way. Darn few people were thinking that far out of the box.
I guess my observation boils down to the fact that I don't ever remember reading about the 7mm 168 SMK enjoying the same reputation as a reference point of accuracy the way the 30 cal. 168 SMK did.
I realize that there are newer bullets requiring faster twists than what would have been considered "normal" years ago and that they are the current darlings of the 7mm bullet world. Many of them are run at longer ranges than my 1st reference limiting the distance to 600 yards or so. They are highly specialized and developed for that target in the next zip code over. I can appreciate and understand that.
And the change to heavier bullets is not limited to bigger calibers, either. Look how much we're reading about 75, 80 and even in some cases 90 grain bullets for the .224 family of bullets. I'll wager that 15 years ago you'd be laughed at if you said you wanted to run an 80 grainer in a 223. 69 grain, certainly; but 80 or 90? No way. Darn few people were thinking that far out of the box.
I guess my observation boils down to the fact that I don't ever remember reading about the 7mm 168 SMK enjoying the same reputation as a reference point of accuracy the way the 30 cal. 168 SMK did.
Im guessing the reason you dont remember the 168gr 7mm bullet as well as the 30 cal 168gr is probably because of the fact that when the 168gr 30Cal bullet was popular 308 ruled just about every NRA shooting discapline there was. If you where a HighPower across the course shooter you shot aBolt gun in 308 or if you where a Service rifle shooter you shot a M14 in 308. This lasted over two decades, even closer to three. Then Rifle Silhouttee had hunter class and open and they shot 308 also. Ill give you one guess what Just about every shooter used for a bullet in there match ammo?
As noted above Tubb started to play around with the 7mm in 1988. Still I bet 90% of folks shot the 308. The AR15 didnt start comming onto the scean until about maybe 97 or so. Until then the 308 ruled the Service Rifle with the M14.
Match Rifle shooters ( Main Stream) didnt start messinwith the 7mm until the late 80's to 90's and the 6.5'08 moved in with it about the same time so there was a split and not one dominant cartridge like the 30'06 and 308 days. Now you see all sort of chamberings from 223 to Wild cats based off the 30 Remington case in 6mm.
So Im thinking it has more to do with the time span that the bullet was popular in and the time frame when shooting was very popular as well.
I forgot to mention 300 Meter International as well for which it was actually designed for.
So to your title of this post i guess i would say that there was just less time to love before everyone moved on.
As noted above Tubb started to play around with the 7mm in 1988. Still I bet 90% of folks shot the 308. The AR15 didnt start comming onto the scean until about maybe 97 or so. Until then the 308 ruled the Service Rifle with the M14.
Match Rifle shooters ( Main Stream) didnt start messinwith the 7mm until the late 80's to 90's and the 6.5'08 moved in with it about the same time so there was a split and not one dominant cartridge like the 30'06 and 308 days. Now you see all sort of chamberings from 223 to Wild cats based off the 30 Remington case in 6mm.
So Im thinking it has more to do with the time span that the bullet was popular in and the time frame when shooting was very popular as well.
I forgot to mention 300 Meter International as well for which it was actually designed for.
So to your title of this post i guess i would say that there was just less time to love before everyone moved on.
I don't think they suck, they do work for some. I witnessed a 5 shot 3 inch measured group at 1028 yards out of a 7WSM Brux barrel on a Savage action in a Low Boy that Ray Bowman chambered. The following month in Swainsboro GA.this same rifle, bullet, setup and man shot a 5-shot 2 inch witnessed group at 1000 yards during practice. I am going to try these out of my 7RSAUM, maybe they will work for me, maybe not.
Hi All , I have shot a 7mm a fair bit at 1000yds bench , the only bullet that i have been able to get to work great is that ole blunt 168Smk.. Not the sharpest tool in the chest but for consistency in grouping the Smk is the king .. Naturally it's all 10 bullets that have to be small to make up a group and i guess if i was shootin for score only i'd tighten up the twist and run them pointy bullets .. The good part of the 168 is it works in any weather in a 10 to 10.5 twist and that helps with dispersion control on my home range .. JR..Jeff Rogers..ps not as many different bullets available to try here in Australia because of import restrictions
I've used the 168 gr. Sierra 7mm MK in a 7-08 Rem. for metallic silhouette for many years and have ZERO complaints, Loaded to an MV of 2550 fps, the bullets produce 1.4 in. groups at 300 meters (my test distance). Every (50 lb.+) ram I have hit with this bullet has gone down.
I just finished developing a long range load for my .284 Winchester with the same bullets. Loaded with H4831 SC to an MV of 2950 fps, I shot a test 3-shot group measuring 0.84 inch at 200 meters. Repeating this at 300 meters, the group measured 1.136 inches (app. 0.325 MOA). No complaints whatsoever here. Will be sooting 5- shot groups next week, God and weather permitting.
I just finished developing a long range load for my .284 Winchester with the same bullets. Loaded with H4831 SC to an MV of 2950 fps, I shot a test 3-shot group measuring 0.84 inch at 200 meters. Repeating this at 300 meters, the group measured 1.136 inches (app. 0.325 MOA). No complaints whatsoever here. Will be sooting 5- shot groups next week, God and weather permitting.
Actually, I'll be using them extensively in my 284 Win. as well. I've put together a Savage with a Shilen 9 twist, but of a fairly light contour, not a heavy bull barrel. A few range trips showed me that it liked heavy bullets like the 168's and 175's. Didn't care for the box of 162 Amax I sent through it, nor the 154 gr. Hornady spire points I wanted to shoot. I've built up a supply of 168's and hope that good things happen as I start to work with it on a more regular basis.
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