ive ben doing alot of reading on this site and alot of other places to, ive tryed to understand this moa measurement and i just dont get it, i understand 1moa is 1inch at 100 and 2inch at 200 ect... but i dont see why i cant just say 1 inch at 100 or 1 inch at 200? i was reading a piece on wind shooting here and the guy writing the article had to list both measurements, explaing a 9 0clock wind at 10mph would blow the bullet 3\4 moa or .750inch. if i was shootin woodchuck and my buddy told me i was 1\2 moa high at 600yds i wouldnt have a clue has to ware to hold next? is this moa this hard? or am i just not getting it?
why M.O.A?
- Thread starter hoss6br
- Start date
I am afraid it is back to school...
The logic is to express the radius of a circle (which has a radius of 100 yards) in inches. The circle, we know, comprises 360 degrees and if we multiply this again by 60 we achieve minutes of angle.
Thus is the radius is divided by the number of minutes we have establishes that 1 moa = 1" (approx) at 100 yards. The advantage of this type of calculation is that since 1 moa is 1" at 100 yard, then it also represents 2" at 200 yards, 3" at 300 yards etc etc.
The logic is to express the radius of a circle (which has a radius of 100 yards) in inches. The circle, we know, comprises 360 degrees and if we multiply this again by 60 we achieve minutes of angle.
Thus is the radius is divided by the number of minutes we have establishes that 1 moa = 1" (approx) at 100 yards. The advantage of this type of calculation is that since 1 moa is 1" at 100 yard, then it also represents 2" at 200 yards, 3" at 300 yards etc etc.
hoss6br,
you're just not getting it yet. Using MOA is actually the easier method here, since it's a constant. As Yellow11 explained, it's an angular unit of measurement. One MOA at 100 yards is still one MOA at 1000, or anywhere in between. Your sight corrections are also made in angular units that remain constant. In other words, there is no click adjustment that moves a scope or sight 1/4 inch at 100 yards, and the same 1/4 inch at 1000 yards. They will, however, move a bullet's impact 1/4 MOA at 100, 200, 300, etc. on out to inifinity, so that's what we deal with. It's different only because you're trying to think in terms of a specific measurment, like an inch, and take that out to whatever distance you're shooting at. Just doesn't work that way. Minutes of Angle or for that matter, Mils, are easy enough to work with. You just need to shift your thinking a bit here.
you're just not getting it yet. Using MOA is actually the easier method here, since it's a constant. As Yellow11 explained, it's an angular unit of measurement. One MOA at 100 yards is still one MOA at 1000, or anywhere in between. Your sight corrections are also made in angular units that remain constant. In other words, there is no click adjustment that moves a scope or sight 1/4 inch at 100 yards, and the same 1/4 inch at 1000 yards. They will, however, move a bullet's impact 1/4 MOA at 100, 200, 300, etc. on out to inifinity, so that's what we deal with. It's different only because you're trying to think in terms of a specific measurment, like an inch, and take that out to whatever distance you're shooting at. Just doesn't work that way. Minutes of Angle or for that matter, Mils, are easy enough to work with. You just need to shift your thinking a bit here.
It's a matter of simplicity in the end... if we all speak in the same terms, we know what those terms mean.
You can certainly use 1" @ 100 yards, etc. for your needs if it gives you the results you want down range, the effective difference is pretty small & may not matter if it's under your accuracy threshold.
Many optical sight reticles are calibrated in MOA so it's practical to call shots in MOA & just hold off half a dot or notch (or line or whatever) ....
MOA just happens to be the standardized term; 100 yard radius circle (3600" x 3.14159 (pi) x 2 = 22,619.448" circumference / 360 (degrees) / 60 (minutes per degree) = 1.047197" = 1 M.O.A.
At 300 yards the difference is less than the diameter of a .223 bullet. At 1000 yards it's half an inch, which can mean a lost point if you can hold the x-ring but miss a wind change by a couple of clicks.
Using MOA is a LOT easier than trying to mentally compute bullet ballistics for your chosen round, for all the distances you might be shooting at.
You certainly CAN do bullet drop tables if you want to! Many shooters do just that, but typically after they've worked with a cartridge for awhile & know what to expect under different conditions.
You can certainly use 1" @ 100 yards, etc. for your needs if it gives you the results you want down range, the effective difference is pretty small & may not matter if it's under your accuracy threshold.
Many optical sight reticles are calibrated in MOA so it's practical to call shots in MOA & just hold off half a dot or notch (or line or whatever) ....
MOA just happens to be the standardized term; 100 yard radius circle (3600" x 3.14159 (pi) x 2 = 22,619.448" circumference / 360 (degrees) / 60 (minutes per degree) = 1.047197" = 1 M.O.A.
At 300 yards the difference is less than the diameter of a .223 bullet. At 1000 yards it's half an inch, which can mean a lost point if you can hold the x-ring but miss a wind change by a couple of clicks.
Using MOA is a LOT easier than trying to mentally compute bullet ballistics for your chosen round, for all the distances you might be shooting at.
You certainly CAN do bullet drop tables if you want to! Many shooters do just that, but typically after they've worked with a cartridge for awhile & know what to expect under different conditions.
I think it is a convenient abbreviation for certain aspects of shooting that are linear with distance. We hope if we can shoot 1/4" at 100 we can do 1/2" at 200, and more or less we can say we can shoot 1/4 MOA without discussing distance. More accurately it applies to scope adjustments. A 1/4 MOA per click of adjustment says it all without discussing distance. Same way with reticle or reticle dot size. A 1/8 MOA dot is 1/8" at 100, 1/4" at 200 and so on.
Wind on the other hand is not linear with distance. So I don't think there is a place for a 1 MOA wind. A 1" wind at 100 yards is going to be a 4" wind at 200. It is not linear, and 1 MOA is wrong at 200, as it is actually 2 MOA at 200. So I would suggest wind is not properly described in MOA.
Wind on the other hand is not linear with distance. So I don't think there is a place for a 1 MOA wind. A 1" wind at 100 yards is going to be a 4" wind at 200. It is not linear, and 1 MOA is wrong at 200, as it is actually 2 MOA at 200. So I would suggest wind is not properly described in MOA.
RonAKA said:
We still speak of minutes of drift when making wind corrections, if only to be able to apply the necessary sight corrections. Sights aren't (often) calibrated in inches for wind but MOA for elevation.
MOA is still useful for windage corrections and as you suggest won't be linear but that's because of the ballistics of the round you're shooting, not the fact that the correction needed isn't the same for every distance: closer targets need less correction than farther targets under a given wind & with a given round because of the non-linear behavior of that particular round as distance to the target increases.
That too.
Don't forget it's also Very Helpful to "calibrate" your equipment (sights) so you know what to expect on target when you crank those knobs around.
You may have PAID FOR 1/4 or 1/2 minute adjustments on that nice new sight, but until you get some rounds down range on a calibrated target (can be as simple as a vertical line with tick marks every 10.47" if you're shooting at a measured 100 yards, 20.94" @ 200, etc.) you just won't know if you actually GET 1 MOA correction for every 4 or 2 clicks, will you?
If this isn't clear to you, contact me off list & I'll do a more thorough explanation... maybe with pictures. This is a little off-topic here but an important point to have knowledge of and experience with.
Don't forget it's also Very Helpful to "calibrate" your equipment (sights) so you know what to expect on target when you crank those knobs around.
You may have PAID FOR 1/4 or 1/2 minute adjustments on that nice new sight, but until you get some rounds down range on a calibrated target (can be as simple as a vertical line with tick marks every 10.47" if you're shooting at a measured 100 yards, 20.94" @ 200, etc.) you just won't know if you actually GET 1 MOA correction for every 4 or 2 clicks, will you?
If this isn't clear to you, contact me off list & I'll do a more thorough explanation... maybe with pictures. This is a little off-topic here but an important point to have knowledge of and experience with.
.1" group shot with 5 rounds @ 100 yards is really good shootin' ;D & is equivalent to .1" MOA for all practical purposes.
If that five shot group would only hold up out to 1,000 yards (we wish!) it'd measure 1", which would STILL be .1" MOA at that distance.
1 MOA at 1000 yards is a little bit more than 10"; 10.47" to be more exact.
That's why we say MOA is linear - the same unit of measure (MOA) is used to describe a given displacement or correction desired at any distance....
At 1,000 yards, 1 click on a 1/4 MOA sight is supposed to move the P(oint) O(f) I(mpact) 1/4 MOA or 2-1/2".
Some do, some don't, which is why I brought up the "calibrate your equipment" point. To move your POI 1 MOA would take 4 clicks on that 1/4 MOA sight, if your sight is really giving you a true 1 MOA adjustment in 4 clicks.
I gotta go eat some lunch now... past my break time. I'll check back later before I head out to my league smallbore match for tonight, OK?
If that five shot group would only hold up out to 1,000 yards (we wish!) it'd measure 1", which would STILL be .1" MOA at that distance.
1 MOA at 1000 yards is a little bit more than 10"; 10.47" to be more exact.
That's why we say MOA is linear - the same unit of measure (MOA) is used to describe a given displacement or correction desired at any distance....
At 1,000 yards, 1 click on a 1/4 MOA sight is supposed to move the P(oint) O(f) I(mpact) 1/4 MOA or 2-1/2".
Some do, some don't, which is why I brought up the "calibrate your equipment" point. To move your POI 1 MOA would take 4 clicks on that 1/4 MOA sight, if your sight is really giving you a true 1 MOA adjustment in 4 clicks.
I gotta go eat some lunch now... past my break time. I'll check back later before I head out to my league smallbore match for tonight, OK?
bozo699
Gold $$ Contributor
Hoss,
spclark has explained it better than anyone in simple terms. If your calling the shots for someone else you may have to think a little more, but if your shooting and someone is calling for you it's a no brainer, and I don't mean that as a degrading remark to you I mean it really is a no brainer, if your spotter tells you give me 1/4 up and 2 1/4 right you don't really have to think about anything, just do exactly as he say's, grab your vertical turret and turn it one click, then grab your horizontal turret and just read it if you have to, click 4 clicks and it will read 1, four more clicks and it will read the #2 then just two more clicks and your there 2 1/2" to the right or 10 clicks. I mean you know that 4 clicks is 1" or 1 moa (round #s) so you don't really have to think, he say's 2 1/2 minutes right you just start clicking 1234 (1") 1234 (2") 1,2 (1/2") pull the trigger and hoss it doesn't matter if you are 100 yards or 623 yards or 1750 yards if your spotter tells you 1/4 up 1/4 right you just click one click up and one click right. Its really a no brainer, just click whatever he tells you. If your doing the calling its a little harder but not much, you know if your shooting 500 yards 5" is one MOA (round #s) so if your shooter is 2 1/2" high dead center L/R you call out give me 1/2 minute down he just turns his 1/4 moa scope two clicks down and pulls the trigger. You don't really need to know all the exact math right now, just play with round #s, you know 1" is one moa, and on a 1/4 moa scope that's one click for ea. 1/4" so four clicks is 1" or one moa @ 100 yards and so on and so on
You will get the hang of it.
Wayne.
spclark has explained it better than anyone in simple terms. If your calling the shots for someone else you may have to think a little more, but if your shooting and someone is calling for you it's a no brainer, and I don't mean that as a degrading remark to you I mean it really is a no brainer, if your spotter tells you give me 1/4 up and 2 1/4 right you don't really have to think about anything, just do exactly as he say's, grab your vertical turret and turn it one click, then grab your horizontal turret and just read it if you have to, click 4 clicks and it will read 1, four more clicks and it will read the #2 then just two more clicks and your there 2 1/2" to the right or 10 clicks. I mean you know that 4 clicks is 1" or 1 moa (round #s) so you don't really have to think, he say's 2 1/2 minutes right you just start clicking 1234 (1") 1234 (2") 1,2 (1/2") pull the trigger and hoss it doesn't matter if you are 100 yards or 623 yards or 1750 yards if your spotter tells you 1/4 up 1/4 right you just click one click up and one click right. Its really a no brainer, just click whatever he tells you. If your doing the calling its a little harder but not much, you know if your shooting 500 yards 5" is one MOA (round #s) so if your shooter is 2 1/2" high dead center L/R you call out give me 1/2 minute down he just turns his 1/4 moa scope two clicks down and pulls the trigger. You don't really need to know all the exact math right now, just play with round #s, you know 1" is one moa, and on a 1/4 moa scope that's one click for ea. 1/4" so four clicks is 1" or one moa @ 100 yards and so on and so on
You will get the hang of it.Wayne.
hoss6br said:
Forget this MOA stuff. The next time you shoot Woodchucks with a buddy tell him you want to know in inches how high to hold.
It's much easier understood, since we tend to deal in inches with a lot of the mundane measurements we use in everyday life. All three of my scopes clicks are 1/8 inch adjustments at 100 yards. 1/4" inch at 200 etc.
Keep it simple! Use a language you understand.
Erik Cortina
Team Lapua Brux Borden Captain
hoss6br said:
Yes, but try not to count clicks. If your spotter says to go up 1 MOA, and let's say you look at your turret and you are at 3 1/2, then grab it and turn it to 4 1/2, that easy.
The numbers on your turrets are MOA's, not inches at 100 yards.
Now, if you are shooting 500 yards and he tells you that you are 12" low, I bet you wouldn't know how much to click your scope up, would you? But if your spotter told you that you were 2 1/2 MOA low, then I bet you would know what to do! ;D
Well....... I was going to explain this, but I think you got it covered Erik!! Pretty much exactly as I was going to put it myself!
Mark
Mark
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