Why is the Savage Target Action better than other "budget" actions?

[Dusty Stevens]

Those lists have everything to do with sponsorships and fads and very little to do with what actually works the best. I agree, show me some data to demonstrate the difference.

To the OP likely not reading anymore, I built Savages until I realized you could do the same thing with a Remington. And the Remington doesn't have the trigger limitation. To the flat vs round question, I have a heavy 284Win F-class rifle built on a Panda action and a 338 Edge moderate weight hunting rifle built on a Stiller Remington clone round action. I can't explain it but that homemade 338, despite the recoil, can shoot groups with the competition 284 if you allow cooling time...

Nobody is sponsored on those equipment lists. Heres the most recent super shoot results

 

[Scott Harris]

I'm going to try to keep this short. Basically I'm building a precision rifle for bench shoot (not competition) and trying to wring the most accuracy out of a somewhat limited budget. I have every part worked out except the action. I keep reading and hearing conflicting data on how much the action contributes to accuracy. So to be specific the build will look something like:

- Barrel: Bartlein from Bugholes, Rock Creek from PVA, or Shilen from Northland pre-fits (depending on action). Medium Palma 24in chambered in 6.5CM and threaded for my TBAC can.

- Trigger: Jewel, Huber, TriggerTech, Timney, Calvin, etc. (whatever fits action).

- Stock/Chassis: MDT, McMillan, KRG, or similar (again depending on action).

- Action: Options are Tikka T3x, Savage 10, Ruger American, Howa 1500, and the Savage Target Action. None will have work done, just the stock action.

So my question is this; if you build the five actions mentioned above into the rifles described above, would the Savage Target Action (or any of the other actions for that matter) have an advantage over the others when it comes to pure accuracy? Off a bench with front and rear bag or bipod and rear bag and tuned hand loads, would there be any noticeable difference in accuracy at 100y or 1200y for that matter?

I get that consistency leads to accuracy, I'm just not sure what/how the savage PTA without any work done on it delivers more of this than any of the other actions mentioned, and if that would in tern yield noticeable accuracy gains. Hoping someone can explain this to me, thanks in advance!

My vote goes for Tikka T3 as the hands-down best stock factory action...in a league of its own. For custom actions Defiance Deviant is my selection....hardly ever see those for sale used.

 

[Evan]

Nobody is sponsored on those equipment lists. Heres the most recent super shoot results View attachment 1107878

That second column is really boring, Dusty. I think new and adventurous blood needs to find its way back into short range benchrest. When all you see is BATs and PPCs, you know the sport has become stagnant. Time for a rule change...

EDIT: Here's my suggestion: move the weight down to 7 pounds for LV and limit muzzle energy.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

That second column is really boring, Dusty. I think new and adventurous blood needs to find its way back into short range benchrest. When all you see is BATs and PPCs, you know the sport has become stagnant. Time for a rule change...

Nothing says you have to use a bat or a ppc. There were a bunch there that wasnt- they didnt get the honorable mention. Plenty of other actions and cartridges have come and gone in just my 22 or so years of doing it. Come on and join us- after a few years youll be shooting a ppc and a bat action im sure. The main reason for the bats is to grab somebodys spare barrel at a match if yours goes south plus at 100&200 you can pick out a faulty action real quick. You get burned a few times not able to sell an oddball action and being with a barrel that doesnt shoot youll see the light as well. Every top shooter actually does experiment.

 

[Evan]

Nothing says you have to use a bat or a ppc. There were a bunch there that wasnt- they didnt get the honorable mention. Plenty of other actions and cartridges have come and gone in just my 22 or so years of doing it. Come on and join us- after a few years youll be shooting a ppc and a bat action im sure. The main reason for the bats is to grab somebodys spare barrel at a match if yours goes south plus at 100&200 you can pick out a faulty action real quick. You get burned a few times not able to sell an oddball action and being with a barrel that doesnt shoot youll see the light as well. Every top shooter actually does experiment.

That's what I'm saying. The "optimal solution" has been found. A rule chnage or a new class would push everything out of balance and everyone would need to discover the new optimal solution.

With modern carbon fiber stocks and barrels, I think a new lighter weight class would be doable and interesting. Give an advantage to 22s over the 6s cause recoil would be more of an issue.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

That's what I'm saying. The "optimal solution" has been found. A rule chnage or a new class would push everything out of balance and everyone would need to discover the new optimal solution.

But nothing is saying you cant venture out- all the top shooters do, but you either shoot a ppc or get beat by a ppc. Call a top br gunsmith and ask him how many reamers he has for br that only have one chamber on them. Its not just one guy every once in a while

 

[fayettefatts]

Ahhhhhh. My neighbors bought a new car when I was a kid. The speedo looked like a wheel and the transmission buttons were on the steering wheel. What was it??

Edsel

 

[dolek]

 

[Ccrider]

Nobody is sponsored on those equipment lists. Heres the most recent super shoot results View attachment 1107878

Two things jump out at me. A Farley action won. And Krieger barrels seem to be the mainstay. I would have never thought that.

What brand barrels did the top two shooters use?

 

[Terry]

Nobody is sponsored on those equipment lists. Heres the most recent super shoot results View attachment 1107878

This has nothing to do with this thread.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Two things jump out at me. A Farley action won. And Krieger barrels seem to be the mainstay. I would have never thought that.

What brand barrels did the top two shooters use?

Old farley actions are as good as they get (pre black widow) and krieger has been the most popular for a long time

 

[Ccrider]

I have a couple of the old Farley’s. One is a “Firefly”. Smoothest action I have felt.

I have a savage target action in a 6br that is slick as snot and shoots as good as most ppcs. I have owned several savage 110 actions. Some accurate, some not. I think it has more to do with the barrel than the action.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I have a couple of the old Farley’s. One is a “Firefly”. Smoothest action I have felt.

I have a savage target action in a 6br that is slick as snot and shoots as good as most ppcs. I have owned several savage 110 actions. Some accurate, some not. I think it has more to do with the barrel than the action.

Some actions just agg better than others. When you find one like that every barrel is a good one. Tony boyer’s old hart HV comes to mind

 

[Al Lu]

Can I ask what make Bat action so dominant? in question to Dusty Steven "Some actions just agg better than others".

 

[MGYSGT]

Rambler made one with push buttons

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Can I ask what make Bat action so dominant? in question to Dusty Steven "Some actions just agg better than others".

When people spend a year getting a rifle together they want to have the best chance at getting a good action. When you gamble with that much money and a year getting it together the safest bet is with a bat so thats the main reason

 

[Evan]

When people spend a year getting a rifle together they want to have the best chance at getting a good action. When you gamble with that much money and a year getting it together the safest bet is with a bat so thats the main reason

I'd argue a little differently. I think it's a mixture of looks, prestige, and herd mentality.

All the top actions (Panda, Borden, BAT, for example) have long proven track records of performance. The BAT is the prettiest, to my eye, mostly due to the bolt shroud design. Pandas are bulky and Bordens look like a Rem clone. But all of them are capable of setting records and winning matches, as they have demonstrated.

 

[mauser284]

savage only drawback is the trigger only a few peeps make triggers but you can get one from SS that works well, but other than that they are ok but not for comp because of the bolt lift unless you shoot a 70lbs gun, other peeps will chime in than are more knowledgeable than me, I have a PTA and have had barrels that shoot bugholes all dayjust sold a 260ai that shoots great, but shooting comp and keeping the rifle stable in the bags for a fast firing string is a no go

Nothing you put forward is actually evidence of Savage bolt action being "better" than the other "budget" actions. First there is nothing budget about any of the Savage actions from a price standpoint for the action itself or for an entire rifle if looking for a rifle that does not require you to repurchase everything other than the bar stock receiver itself.

Aftermarket support is competently different than "better"! What you actual said is as backwards and misguided as someone that does not know the difference between clearances and tolerances and proceeds to spew nonsense.

A good example is the old school Chevy Small Block. At one point everyone and their mother made parts for it. You could buy performance parts very cheaply for it. They were so common that I once had a friend trade a case of beer for a fully dressed SBC over the CB radio in Hinesville Ga.! LOL None of that made the SBC a good design or a better design than say the early small hemi's, Olds Rocket Block, Pontiac Nail Head and on and on it just made them cheap, common and easy to source parts for! LOL

For the record while the 110 action and it's offspring are ugly, cheaply made and not well made from an engineering standpoint they are genius in how much money can be taken out of a Mauser design and still end up with a very functional action! I own a 12FV so I have nothing against Savage. I think it is shameful that they think the 110 and it's offspring are not already cheap enough and feel compelled to cheapen the design even more.

 

[Dud]

I'm not sure what advantage a 110 has over an Axis beside the more traditional recoil lug.

The Axis has a smallish ejection port compared to an open top. I'm not sure if it is stiffer than an open top single shot without a magazine cut but it might be and it's certainly stiffer than an open top receiver with a magazine cut.

A stiff receiver keeps the scope rail aligned with the bore.

The Axis also removes the need to free-float the rear tang because it doesn't have one. I'm sure this saves money because the receiver can be made with at least a 1" shorter piece of bar stock.

I wish they didn't do the weird recoil lug notch but beside that, I think their cost reductions are pretty good.

My Axis should do fine. A Savage Target action would probably be better. Many good customs would be better than that. I'm not sure where the other production actions would fall in line, especially when price is a factor. My Axis was $250 slightly used and has about $80 worth of take-off parts I could sell if I tried, making it about a $170 action with Accu-trigger. Maybe a surplus Mauser is cheaper than that but not by much and sporterizing it isn't free.

 

[muleman69]

if you decide to go savage target action I have some brand new target repeaters available. Also have an mdt chassis for sale.

Do you have any left hand actions ?