When a match is advertised as "NRA Approved," match directors are supposed to turn in the results to the NRA so competitors can receive credit for their scores toward classification. Many shooters intentionally attend matches that are advertised this way because they are trying to either become classified, or to upgrade their classification. I see posts where folks ask what should be done to increase attendance at matches or encourage new shooters, especially in LR, MR and FB matches, and yet at match after match, months after the matches are concluded, the results have never been turned in to the NRA and scores credited to the shooters. This discourages shooters from attending matches at those clubs in the future, and also discourages many shooters from continuing in the sport when they can't obtain any advancement, even when they shoot high scores at the matches. I can't imagine why match directors do this. If they want to hold local club matches and not bother with the NRA, that's fine. But if they advertise a match as NRA Approved, they owe it to the shooters to turn in the results within a reasonable period of time.
Why don't match directors turn in results?
- Thread starter M99
- Start date
As you probably know, when the Match Director sends in his request to the NRA for NRA Approval, the NRA sends a certificate of approval to be displayed at the event certifying that the match is in fact NRA Approved. If you go to a match that claims to be NRA Approved and the certificate is not displayed I would recommend that you ask to see the certificate and if it is not available the event is suspect. If it is NRA Approved I can assure you that the NRA does a diligent job in following up on Clubs that do not turn in scores for NRA Approved matches and at some point the NRA will stop Approving matches for the delinquent club.
Keith Glasscock
Gold $$ Contributor
I have to ask, how are you determining that the MD didn't turn in the scores?
I ask because it is quite well known that the NRA competitions division is understaffed and overworked. Thus, it takes a very long time for results, classifications, national records, etc..
I ask because it is quite well known that the NRA competitions division is understaffed and overworked. Thus, it takes a very long time for results, classifications, national records, etc..
Why would a match directory lie about having NRA approval? In my 14 years of competing, I don't think I've ever seen a certificate displayed at a match indicating that it was officially NRA approved.
-- Scott
In my 40 years experience I can say that for many years it was common to have the NRA Approval certificate displayed at registration and it is still an NRA requirement but like a lot of things, that too has been neglected. But let me repeat, if you are a Match Director and you apply for and receive NRA Approval you are required to post the NRA Approval at registration. If you are a competitor at a match that is advertised by the Match Director as NRA Approved you have the right to see the certificate. If it is NRA Approved the NRA will follow up if they do not receive the scores and fees within 30 days of the event.
But to be more specific as to why would a match directory(sic) lie about NRA approval? The answer is that there is a match fee of ~5$ per competitor that is required by the NRA to register the scores. Follow the money.
morpheus
Gold $$ Contributor
I'll just leave this here for reference: http://compete.nra.org/competitor-activity.aspx
Also at the bottom of the NRA Approval certificate in large bold font is " MUST BE POSTED ON BULLETIN BOARD AT TOURNAMENT"
DirtySteve
Gold $$ Contributor
Match Directors can now enter the results directly into the system...
Talladega CMP misrepresented some F-Class matches as approved earlier this year when the matches were not, in fact, approved. They finally fessed up when challenged for the paperwork.
So someone probably made a mistake when writing the match program. Do you really think they were doing it to pocket an extra $5 per competitor? That's my whole point. I typically think my fellow shooters are honest, so if someone were to ask me why scores are turned in late, I would say it's more than likely because match directors are overworked volunteers. Not because they're looking to pocket an extra $5 from a fellow shooter. That's just me though.
-- Scott
boltman13
Gold $$ Contributor
I post my NRA approval form on the inside door of the Target Shed for all to see during the year as we set up the targets. And yes the NRA does follow up if results are not sent in in a timely manner. I had it happen only once after about a 6 week lapse, and I had mailed it 2 days earlier. NRA approved matches are $4.50/shooter.
The false claim of NRA approval was made in several places: on the CMP website as well as in emails and other announcements. The match director (and others) making the false claim are paid employees of Talladega CMP. They were charging $50 for these F-Class matches. I won't speculate on why they lied about the matches being NRA approved. But it's not because they were overworked volunteers.
The main reason is laziness in the chain of people who touch these. The further I got in my MD "career" the longer it took.
Now, if one of ours isn't mailed the week of the match it's becuase we need two signatures on the check and most of us who run the club work our asses off 60+ hours a week and don't have time to drive an hour each way for a signature. The days (my old days) of half assing your way through with no 501c and no insurance, etc are over so things take more time.
Have you called or emailed the MD to ask?
Have you ever considers running a match or two, or being a stat officer and handling this?
Now, if one of ours isn't mailed the week of the match it's becuase we need two signatures on the check and most of us who run the club work our asses off 60+ hours a week and don't have time to drive an hour each way for a signature. The days (my old days) of half assing your way through with no 501c and no insurance, etc are over so things take more time.
Have you called or emailed the MD to ask?
Have you ever considers running a match or two, or being a stat officer and handling this?
Not
It's the reason we don't have Approved or Registered Matches at two local ranges. One Match Director ran programs at both Ranges, in the 4 + years
he pocketed most of the NRA's Match Fees and all the Clubs share, 50-75 competitors a month, times $20 a head equaled custom rifles and new scopes.
It's the reason we don't have Approved or Registered Matches at two local ranges. One Match Director ran programs at both Ranges, in the 4 + years
he pocketed most of the NRA's Match Fees and all the Clubs share, 50-75 competitors a month, times $20 a head equaled custom rifles and new scopes.
I never wrote that CMP employees are volunteers. With regards to the CMP I said that someone made a mistake.
I wrote that match results are typically turned in late because most match directors are volunteers that get busy with family, work, etc.
-- Scott
Damn match directors. You would think with all the money they are making for directing matches that they could run a match the way I want it ran. I want first relay, a level, dry firing point, and the best target puller, and I want my stats turned in in 24 hours.
I dare them spend their free time providing me a venue to shoot, and not do it to the satisfaction of every shooter at the match. Furthermore, they should spend even more of their volunteer time trying to satisfy those special shooters. You know, the ones that never show up early enough to help set up but always seem to be the first to complain.
I dare them spend their free time providing me a venue to shoot, and not do it to the satisfaction of every shooter at the match. Furthermore, they should spend even more of their volunteer time trying to satisfy those special shooters. You know, the ones that never show up early enough to help set up but always seem to be the first to complain.
The one time I served as a formal MD, the venue had promised I'd have a full calendar year to improve attendance or they would reallocate the resources elsewhere. After 9 months, I had only increased the average monthly participation by 300% so they posted notices (without even telling me first) that the monthly matches had been cancelled. If this is the uncertainty I'm gonna face after working hard to restore participation to a match, no thanks! (I always turned in scores to the sanctioning body within 48 hours of event completion.)
I'm still an enthusiastic coach, teacher, and evangelist for the shooting sports, but I've taken to organizing informal events and skipping the approval of sanctioning bodies. Official targets are cheap and most ranges don't even notice if a group goes in and has an informal match if they otherwise have permission to shoot there - and there is not much demand for facility use on weekdays. One can even host a match at Talladega for $35 a head and everyone can stay and shoot as long as they like that day. (Their unsanctioned matches are $50 a head.)
But other than NRA sanctioning, most of the peeps who participate in my informal matches have no real motive to travel various distances and pay higher match fees to show up and shoot very many formal matches. Their main motive is to earn classifications to recognize the acquisition of new skills. No one seems to mind a 6-8 week delay in the NRA posting the results (competitor activity) and maybe a couple weeks longer updating earned classifications.
It is very disappointing to plan time off of work, travel, equipment prep, etc. and then find out a match was not sanctioned. MDs owe it to their shooters to accurately describe the sanctioning status of a match and to turn in scores from sanctioned matches within the window prescribed by NRA. We've found MSM to be exemplary in this regard. (I have no problem with MSM occasionally cancelling matches or turning 1000 yard events into 600 yard events due to facility issues beyond their control. Communication with shooters is excellent and timely.)
Keep in mind that high power and benchrest events are not just competing with other events of the same type. They are also competing with PRS, all the other shooting sports, and everything else shooters might be doing that weekend. Many of the other shooting sports have figured out how to get results posted online the same day and how to reliably get results to the sanctioning body in 1-7 days. I also expect that action pistol events falsly claiming IDPA or USPSA status would pretty quickly be facing legal action - at very least a cease and desist order.
Apparently more of them are dishonest, thieving SOB's, then I would have thought. I guess I need to take off my rose colored glasses as daleboy suggested.
-- Scott
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