Why doesn't the 280 Remington AI w/ Berger 168 gr. VLD bullet rule the world?

[Broncazonk]

I'm not trying be too controversial and all, but the above combination would eat the lunch of every 6.5mm round ever developed. I mean it would spank the pants off the 6.5mm soo bad that some 6.5mm owners would go home crying to their mothers (and the others would most likely take up pottery, or maybe even wood-carving.)

Now listen: I'm not trying to start a fight or nothing.

I just mean, not trying to put too fine a point on it, but every 6.5mm ever conceived looks like a shotgun firing slugs compared to this combination. You know, like a musket or something.

I don't own either one, and I don't have a dog in this fight, so please don't go flame-thrower on me, I'm just saying.

But still--compare the BC's, velocities, bullet choices, powder choices, case efficiencies--those 6.5mm's look like poo compared to the 280 AI with a Berger bullet.

Bronc :

 

[DukeDuke]

It does rule, we just aren't aware yet.

 

[Titandriver]

Re: Why doesn't the 280 Remington AI w/ Berger 168 gr. VLD bullet rule the world

We do now!! Look for a mass exodus from the 260 to the 280AI. Oughtta be lots of bargains on 260's in the coming days. ;D

 

[jr600yd]

Your right about the 280 and the selection of powders, bullets and all but your missing something. I don't know what it is but it's there. A lot of really good shooters choose other calibers and the 280 isn't as popular as you might think. Why? Maybe it's recoil? Seems a lot of shooters are going to the 6mm's for both hunting and target work. We Americans have a love afair with the 308 and 30/06 and I've seen more 243's in the field than 280's. To each his own. The 280 is a great cartridge but it's not the king of the hill.

 

[dlebeck]

JR600yd is onto something with his commnets. Recoil, cost to reload, availabilty of high quality brass and such all are part of the reason. Mostly though, I think it comes down to actual range results and the 6.5 and 6mm rounds that you see most offten out shoot the 280 on a regular basis day in and day out. After all the name of the game is ACCURACY, and no matter what the .com's say, about MV, BC, or anything else, the guy's here have spent thousands of dollars and thousands of hours refining exactly what is and is not accurate. Now I have both a 22 and a 6mm PPC and they are very accurate, but beyond 100 or 200yds, it's a whole nother game. So is the 280AI a great round, you bet it is. Will is take game at long range YEP! Will it win at a 600 or 1000 yard match; most likely not. Sorry and keep trying, that's what it's all about.

Doug

 

[Broncazonk]

I hope everyone understands that I was teasing

--except about the 6.5mm vs. 280 AI stuff....

Doug wrote about the range results and accuracy of the 6.5mm over the 7mm. What are the inherent qualities that make the 6.5mm so darn accurate? Whatever it is, it's always been very mysterious.

jr600yd said the exact same thing when he said: "I don't know what it is but it's there."

Something is making the 6.5mm the top dog with accuracy and I want to know what "it" is.

Bronc

 

[watercam]

Re: Why doesn't the 280 Remington AI w/ Berger 168 gr. VLD bullet rule the world

Shoot what you want but the 2009 Long Range Champion shot a .260 Rem. at 1000 yds. and the previous two years it was won with a .243. A bit of technical edge will never beat the person behind the trigger.

 

[CJ6]

:Lions n Tigers n Bears OH MY. Are not too happy being PESTERED by such little things. You need a BIGGER CAL ;D

 

[dlebeck]

Re: Why doesn't the 280 Remington AI w/ Berger 168 gr. VLD bullet rule the world

Shoot what you want but the 2009 Long Range Champion shot a .260 Rem. at 1000 yds. and the previous two years it was won with a .243. A bit of technical edge will never beat the person behind the trigger.

I am sure that you realize that the 260 is a 6.5 right? And as for why, I don't know either. All I know is what I see as far as results, but as the previous post says, it's the finger behind the trigger. Either way it doesn't matter to me, I can't shoot worth a shit anyway.

Doug

 

[Rtheurer]

Re: Why doesn't the 280 Remington AI w/ Berger 168 gr. VLD bullet rule the world

Shoot what you want but the 2009 Long Range Champion shot a .260 Rem. at 1000 yds. and the previous two years it was won with a .243. A bit of technical edge will never beat the person behind the trigger.

Are we sure Sherri shot here 260 for Long Range? I barrowed her my 6.5X284 Seating die the daybefore the matches. Not that you could not reseat bullets that way but Im just not sure to her using it for Long Range. Either way it was a 6.5MM
I know I shoot better with less recoil. I even have a 280AI reamer and dont use it for Long Range. To top it off my SN# on said rifle is 0280. Fate???? Hmmmm

 

[cliffe]

why not just shoot a straight 284 with the 180's??? cliffe

 

[spclark]

Re: Why doesn't the 280 Remington AI w/ Berger 168 gr. VLD bullet rule the world

"Are we sure Sherri shot here 260 for Long Range?"

No, I believe she shot a 6.5x284 for LR. The 260 was for NRA HP Week.

 

[Mark Walker in TX]

why not just shoot a straight 284 with the 180's??? cliffe

Shhhhhh.

 

[kentuckytroutbum]

JR600yd is onto something with his commnets. Recoil, cost to reload, availabilty of high quality brass and such all are part of the reason. Mostly though, I think it comes down to actual range results and the 6.5 and 6mm rounds that you see most offten out shoot the 280 on a regular basis day in and day out. After all the name of the game is ACCURACY, and no matter what the .com's say, about MV, BC, or anything else, the guy's here have spent thousands of dollars and thousands of hours refining exactly what is and is not accurate. Now I have both a 22 and a 6mm PPC and they are very accurate, but beyond 100 or 200yds, it's a whole nother game. So is the 280AI a great round, you bet it is. Will is take game at long range YEP! Will it win at a 600 or 1000 yard match; most likely not. Sorry and keep trying, that's what it's all about.

Doug

I think that this gentleman hit the issue right on the head. Cost to reload, and recoil become significant issues when you're firing an 80 rd. XTC NRA HP match. Two "dyed-in-the-wool" M1A shooters recently changed to smaller calibers. When I asked why they switched, both of them said "recoil." Let's face it, over a day's match, the effects of recoil are tiring, and they are cumulative. IMHO

 

[therifler]

Sorry for coming in on the post so late ,however I started out shooting competiton with just the standard 280 rem. First shoot took third place for group caliber had great accuracy at 600 yds. I gave it up for smaller 6.5 X 250 ack. less recoil, less money to shoot and better accuracy Probably because of the recoil . I know what some will say the recoil is'nt that bad. It is one less thing to think about when your trying to win a match . www.therifler.com

 

[mattdienes]

First off there is not one caliber that rules the 1000yd game,once people start winning with some thing everyone starts shooting it therefore you see a trend of a particular caliber.
The 6.5 isn't a bad round niether is the 6 or the 7mm's,I prefer the 30 cals!
I've shot the 280AI with bergers,amax's and sierras and guess what shot the best?The lowest BC 7mm bullet the 168 mk.
The 280 is a VERY accurate round ,ask the people who have them,not people who dont have a clue.
As far as the cost to load,thats bulls$#@ everything is expensive to load these days,and recoil,come on the 280AI w/ a 168gr pill dosent recoil much more than a 6.5x284.
I've said this before, high BC bullets dont win the match for you,they can help but in the end its up to the shooter to make the rifle accurate.
Oh and I have won many matches at 1000yds with a 280AI along with other shooters that have them.

 

[Bob3700]

IF you look at the benchrest and F Class shooters you will see a trend toward 7mm. The 180 Berger in 7mm is certainly a LR bullet that is hard to beat.

The British used 7mm to win the F class world championships over the Americans shooting 6.5x284s.

That said, the 280 is going against the accuracy formula. The case is long and thin as apposed to shorter and fatter.

Overall accuracy is with shorter and fatter, look at the PPC, BR and the like. The WSMs and WSSMs are a different matter as the brass is not up to snuff quality wise.

The straight 284 and the 284 Shehane are where the 7mm shooters are going.

Recoil is definitely a factor. You have to be comfortable shooting the rifle all day. I think that the 6.5s and 6mm add that level of comfort that allow shooters to produce high scores over the entire match.

If recoil wasn't a factor, the 30 cal mags would still be ruling the LR competitions.

Just my thoughts.

Bob

 

[bingo1010]

i realize this is an old post but thought i would throw my 2 cents in anyway. i shoot a 28" barrel on my 280 ai and love it. speed with the 162 a max is 3000 fps and shoots 1/2 minute at 1000 yards, with the 180 berger i am at 2950 and well under 1 moa. i have been using 4831sc, but with my new barrel i am going to try h1000 as i think there is speed to be gained. personally i think the whole "short case" thing is a fad. as long as the gun is well assembled it will do its part. 7mm high bc bullets are hard to argue with. with my new barrel i am going with resized 06 lapua brass, previously i used nosler and rem cases but the primers loosened up after 4-5 reloads. again just my 2 pennies worth

 

[jpo]

Re: Why doesn't the 280 Remington AI w/ Berger 168 gr. VLD bullet rule the world

How does the 280 compare with a .284?
What barrel life do you expect with a .280?

 

[MATSUBOB]

"personally i think the whole "short case" thing is a fad" (bingo1010)

Take a look at what consistantly wins benchrest matches....short fat cases.
In my opinion the reason the 280 is not as popular is it takes a long action to handle th 2.5+ length case.