Why Berger 105 vs 108

[forsyth793]

Berger has 3 great choices in the 105 to 108 weight range. It's difficult to choose the one start with for a 6BR 8 Twist Prone Gun. Any HELP here. Thanks

 

[Bob3700]

Spike,

Those that are shooting a BR up here will tell you that the 105 is hard to beat for all out accuracy. It is a typical VLD bullet and is sensitive to seating depth.

The 108 is more SMK like in that it is seating depth tolerant.

Most that are shooting a BR case are using the 105 here.

I am going to give them a good try at 1K in my 6mm BRX.

RGDS

Bob

 

[Rtheurer]

Spike

I only have about 1000 rounds through my Prone gun,6BR) and it has a definate liking to the 105VLD Berger. I have shot the 105 A MAX, 95BergerVLD, and the 105VLD. It liked them all but the 105 was a freak of Nature and produces benchrest accuracy from a prone gun. In November I went down to Chatannoga TN to shoot there 500 yard prone match and shot a 590 with a crossfired 10 on my last string. The second match produced a 200-16X.

My load came right off these pages, 30gr Varget, CCI 450 primer and 105VLD. TooOOOO easy.

Not such a sad day when you have do decide on top notch bullets. : )

RussT

 

[spclark]

If you're new to reloading or in a hurry, use the 108's. They're very forgiving & accurate out past 600 yards.

If you know more about what hasn't worked in your gun for your style of shooting before, the 105VLD might be the ticket but they're finiky about seating depth & velocity so you have more work to do before you can expect them to consistently shoot up to their potential.

The VLD bullet,part number 24429 for 2009) is the thick-jacket version, better for target use. The BT bullet,24428 for 2009) isn't a VLD design.

,Edited after learning more about the specifics of Berger's products; thanks to RCW3)

 

[rcw3]

. . . The two 105's differ only in their jacket thickness; ballistically, they're identical. . . .

This is not quite correct information. Berger makes and sells two different 6mm 105 Bullets and the two 105's are not the same at all.

The Berger 105 VLD is a VLD,whether it is the regular or thick jacket version) and the Berger 105 BT,whether it is a regular or the thick jacket version) is not a VLD design but has a design more like the 108 BT. The 105 BT used to be marketed for magazine feeding as a "length tolerant bullet" or "LTB". The B.C. of the 105 VLD is higher than for the 105 BT.

Robert Whitley
www.6mmAR.com

 

[gambleone]

Steve,
Why is the 105BT more expensive than the 105vld? Not because of the jacket difference is it?

 

[GermanS1]

The 105 VLD is one of Berger's best selling bullets, that makes for some economy of scale in production and pricing.

 

[eitmsmf]

Don't forget the 108 has a tangent ogive similar to a Lapua 105. I just had a reamer ground to do some testing with them. IMO the throat in my other 6BR was just to short to seat the 108 where I would like to see it. My other gun was set up for the 105 VLD and it hammers them.

 

[spclark]

Thanks for clarifying my misunderstanding rcw3. Didn't mean to mislead anyone....

 

[gambleone]

In the Berger brand, my 8tw 6br shoots the 90bt & 108bt the best. Both shoot equally well at 200 yds. Can't seem to get the 105vld's to grp that well. Tried all the combo's. Not sure why??
Any input would be appreciated.

 

[65BR]

Coincidentally, I asked Walt Berger this very question at the SHOT Show in Orlando a couple of weeks ago.

Glad to hear some info on this, good to know.

 

[MarkS]

My newest 6BR 8tw likes the 108's over the 105 Berger. I would give them a try.

Mark Schronce

 

[SHall]

I am with Mark. I have tried 5 different barrels in 6 Dasher and BRX since the end of the season last Sept. Everyone of them will shoot the 108's better than the 105 VLD's. Recently, I tried 2 BRX barrels and a Dasher barrel. I have used all my tuning tricks to get the 105VLD's to shoot at 600 yards in them. Went out this weekend with my best "tuned" 105VLD loads to shoot at 600. They shot 2.2-2.7 inches. I had never shot the 108's in these barrels. I threw a load together for each of the 3 barrels just to try while I was at the range. These untuned 108's shot 1.4-1.8 inches.,Note: I shoot 4 shot groups while load developing). I must add: this was shot early in the AM. Very little mirage or wind. I must add also, it seems the 105VLD's seem to group better when the wind is up. They seem to perform better than the slight BC advantage shows.
One thing I love about the 108's is: I have found, as Berger says, they are not sensitive to seating depth or I have found: not as sensitive to powder charge as 105VLD's. Sometimes I want to pull the rest of my hair out trying to get the 105VLD's to shoot, but it seems you can get the 108's to shoot with your eyes closed while reloading.
"And that is the rest of the story" Samuel Hall

 

[airbornemedic69]

Mark and Samuel

Are you seating the 108's in the lands? I seem to get the best groups at .010 in the lands with the 105's.

I tried the 107 SMK and no dice, I put them in the lands and .020 out. They were all over the place, I did get one good group at 600 yard, but think it was a fluke on my part.

I think berger make better bullets, I will try some, just need to know a good starting point.

Jonathan

 

[gambleone]

Johnathon,
My barrel is shooting best with the 108's seated .030 off lands. 30.2gr varget cci450 primers. avg .25-.5 at 200 yds 5 shot grp. Also RL-15 at 29.9gr shoot same.

 

[Obtunded]

I am a devoted fan of the 105 VLD's in my 6BR's. The empirical load 30 gr Varget, CCI 450 and a Berger 105 VLD is my starting point for all new barrels. I have found best performance 10-25 thou beyond first land contact.

My last 6X47 Lapua loved 108's and was a very finicky rifle to make work. It was very seating depth tolerant and worked best with 10 thou jump.

I have found that the Berger VLD's work in everything. I have had mixed results with Amax's, SMK's but the one bullet that does not make sense to me is the 105 Scenar! I have NEVER gotten Lapua Scenars to work in a single 6mm chambering, and I have tried them in many. Weird... the most consistent bullets in terms of weight and dimensions, yet they won't work for me. I know they are undersized and I know the "tight bore" theory, but I have used .236 and .237 bores and Scenars will-not-work.

 

[airbornemedic69]

Johnathon,
My barrel is shooting best with the 108's seated .030 off lands. 30.2gr varget cci450 primers. avg .25-.5 at 200 yds 5 shot grp. Also RL-15 at 29.9gr shoot same.

I will get a box or two, I have the same powders and primers, So hope to get some down range in the coming weeks.

What bushing size are you using for the 108, and what speed are they running?

 

[SHall]

I usually run the 108's 10 thou off the land. Have tried them hard in the rifling to 25 thou off. Did not see a noticable difference in groups at 600. All groups were competitive - less than 2 inches. Samuel Hall

 

[gambleone]

Johnathon,
My neck is a .272 so I went with a .269 bushing & there running between 2930 & 2950. The 90gr berger bt's shoot exactly the same as the 108's.

 

[dreever]

I have two 6BR's both are .237 bore Kreigers, one with .060 free bore, one with .104 free bore. Both use the same identical load of 30.5 grains of Varget, CCI 450, bullets seated into the lands. The .060 free bore rifle prefers the 105 VLD's, the .104 free bore the 108's. Both rifles at 600 have shot sub inch groups. Just depends on the day.

I will say one thing, and it may be purely psychological, but when the winds blowing I always feel better with the VLD's.

Danny