Who really makes the best brass? UPDATE

[amlevin]

A recent shopping trip showed several different brands of brass on the shelf. All were supposed to be "Top Drawer" and their prices were certainly in that range.

So what brand of brass is really best? The often touted Lapua ( $73/100) or Norma which is at least 20% more expensive ($88/100)? How about Nosler which is near 50% more expensive than Lapua ($104/100)?

Let's also include Hornady Match which is just a little more expensive than Lapua ($79/100).

Or is it the biggie, RWS brass at $185/100?


Is Lapua the best? Or is it merely the best in it's price range?

Note: caliber .308, prices @ Midway (exc RWS which is @HDS. All prices were adjusted to what one would pay for a quantity of 100)

 

[artbosco]

Re: Who really makes the best brass?

Having tried a variety of brass over the years, regardless of price, I've found that in my 6PPC and 30BR, Lapua gives me the results that I'm looking for when competing.

Depending on your cartridges and application of use, something else may suffice. Which brass, powder, primer, bullet combination your barrel likes is probably the best for you regardless of manufacturer.

 

[searcher]

Re: Who really makes the best brass?

From the lineup you mentioned, I think the majority of shooters seeking maximum accuracy form their .308 will not want for more than Lapua, regardless of make or price. Lesser cost brass not mentioned such as Remington, Federal, Winchester and military brass can do just as well for the casual shooter or hunter, albeit at a much lesser cost. For those not wanting to size, trim and weigh cases, the Nosler is sold "ready to shoot", thus the higher price. Based upon price alone, I would not place it above Lapua. Lately, what retailers ask in price often has no correlation to quality. Best to determine what you want it to do (I.E. hunting, informal shooting or serious target shooting), make a choice , then shop around.

 

[JRS]

Re: Who really makes the best brass?

Consistency in weight and dimensions… RWS. Longest lasting… RWS.

 

[jonbearman]

Re: Who really makes the best brass?

Good luck finding any rws brass. I would choose lake city for regular imformal target work and lapua for all out. Nosler and norma would be a decent choice as well if you do al the case prep work and sort them out.

 

[JRS]

Re: Who really makes the best brass?

Good luck finding any rws brass. I would choose lake city for regular imformal target work and lapua for all out. Nosler and norma would be a decent choice as well if you do al the case prep work and sort them out.

It's readily available Jon

 

[bigedp51]

Re: Who really makes the best brass?

Lapua brass is made in Finland and Finland is rated number 1 in the world for their educational system and the U.S. is rated 42 along with some third world countries.

In the world of milsurp rifles and Mosin Nagants Finland made the best Mosins and improved captured Russian Mosins at their Sako plants.

It would appear that Finland and other European countries still believe in quality control of their products before paying stock dividends.

I don't use any of the cartridge cases you listed above in my Winchester 30-30 or AR15 rifles so the question is what type shooting are you doing and what you want out of it. I do use Nosler brass because its carried locally, and it is weight sorted and pre prepped for use in my bolt action Savage and it requires that nothing be done to it.

.243 Win For Tactical Comps
We asked GA Precision’s George Gardner why he chose .243 Winchester for his Tactical Comp Gun. He replied, “Why would I run anything else? Think about it. I’m sending a .585 BC 115 at 3150 fps–that’ll shoot inside the 6XC and .260 Rem with ease. I’m pretty sure I have found the Holy Grail of Comp Rifles. There are no brass issues like you can get forming .260 brass. I don’t have to worry about doughnuts, reaming necks–none of that. And the choice in brass is great too–run Lapua if you want max reloads and great accuracy. Run Winchester if you’re on a budget, and so you won’t cry if you lose some cases in a match.

http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/243win/

 

[Ares]

Re: Who really makes the best brass?

The best brass i have ever used, in terms of consistency in weight and dimensions and concentricity, is actually RUAG Match brass.
It is not very common over here, although it is possible to come by if you know where to look. My first choice for the calibers it is made in as 308.
Ruag ammotech actually owns both RWS and Norma, although the brass is manufactured individually by each company.

Secondly i would choose Lapua, closely followed by RWS.
Lapuas brass usually has a bit thicker case walls then most commercial brass, and thereby slightly lower volume, but it's strong and lasts a long time. The Case head, primer pockets and flash hole uniformity is excellent. And the case walls tends to be good. The necks are thick and sometimes leave a bit to be desired in terms of consistency.

RWS is really pretty much as good as Lapua.
It's also strong brass that will last you a long time, known for having tighter primer pockets then others, and i believe that helps a bit in terms of durability.
The consistency of weight and outer dimensions are very good, slightly better then Lapua from my findings, but the pockets and flash holes are not as excellent as Lapua.
It is not worth twice the price of Lapua brass.

Norma is good brass, but is softer then all the above mentioned, has slightly more vloume and thinner case walls also.
The primer pockets and flash holes are quite good, none of the quality european made brass has punched pockets and flash holes btw.
The necks are not as concentric and benefits more from a cleanup usually.

Nosler brass should be very good, i have never used it though as i see it as a waste of money. Nosler brass is Nosler headstamped Norma brass, that has been prepped and sorted. You will get the same results if you prep Norma brass

Dakota brass is actually also Norma manufactured with a Dakota headstamp and is also of good quality and very expensive.

Currently i do not use any US made brass at all in my reloading.
Hornady i have shot in factory ammunition on occasion, but never used it for reloading.
Hornady match brass i do not know, assume what you mean is the 308 win Match brass. Witch is the normal Hornady 308 brass as far as i know at least.
At best it is sorted and prepped, but still Hornady brass for more money then Lapua, would not be my choice.

Have used some Federal, Remington and Winchester before.
From what i have seen at least, Winchester would be my choice if going with brass at a reasonable price.
But one thing that is for sure is that they all benefit from weight sorting and case prep.

I remember once finding a piece of FC brass being like 15 grain off actually.
Surely not the standard though.

 

[CJ6]

Re: Who really makes the best brass?

Dakota brass is actually also Norma manufactured with a Dakota headstamp and is also of good quality and very expensive.

Dakota brass is made by Lapua. I talked to Kevin Thomas about this when there was a sale on the .423 Dakota brass for a wildcat I'm having built.

 

[JRS]

Re: Who really makes the best brass?

Dakota brass is actually also Norma manufactured with a Dakota headstamp and is also of good quality and very expensive.

Dakota brass is made by Lapua. I talked to Kevin Thomas about this when there was a sale on the .423 Dakota brass for a wildcat I'm having built.

And prior to LAPUA, it was made by Mast, until they went belly-up.

 

[Brians356]

Re: Who really makes the best brass?

How about Nosler which is near 50% more expensive than Lapua ($104/100)?

I just had some "notify me when in stock" messages come in from several big online vendors for Nosler .257 Roberts brass. The current price? ~$75.00 per 50 (i.e. ~$150 per 100.)

Ouch! I'll pass, thanks.

Is Nosler 50% better than Lapua? (I know - Lapua doesn't make .257 Roberts cases. But if they did, they'd be ~$1 the case.)

 

[mshelton]

Re: Who really makes the best brass?

How about Nosler which is near 50% more expensive than Lapua ($104/100)?

I just had some "notify me when in stock" messages come in from several big online vendors for Nosler .257 Roberts brass. The current price? ~$75.00 per 50 (i.e. ~$150 per 100.)

Ouch! I'll pass, thanks.

Is Nosler 50% better than Lapua? (I know - Lapua doesn't make .257 Roberts cases. But if they did, they'd be ~$1 the case.)

I think the Lapua stuff is better than Nosler, though there seems to be 2 different types of Lapua, the 220 Russian, 6br and a few others seem to be much higher quality than say the 6.5x55. That's just from my experience.

Price wise, the thing about brass is that if you can find good or the best possible brass for your gun, you buy it, you cry over the price but you buy it. You now have the best that can ad will out last the gun and it's one thing you no longer have to worry about or second guess.

 

[bow shot]

Re: Who really makes the best brass?

In terms of consistency (of all parameters: weight, trim length, wall thickness, etc.) I've had "great" brass come to me poor, and "junk" brass come to me excellent. The names are Laupua, Hornady, Remington, Norma, Nosler, Winchester, Federal, LC, PMC.

So far Nosler has been batting 1000 for me. I understand it's Norma brass, prepped by Nosler.

The Federal was a shocker, fantastic consistency from brass expended from factory rounds.

Of course, in the brass game, like I said in the opening pgh, YRMV...

 

[bow shot]

Re: Who really makes the best brass?

BTW, a hearty Amen to mshelton's remark about not having to second guess once you buy great brass... or work your 2nd-3rd best brass, and prep it to perfection. You put that bear to bed and get exclude itfrom that list of things that nag you about accuracy.

 

[markm87]

Re: Who really makes the best brass?

I'll tell you what... RWS in 300 WM is some tough stuff. Although not as nice as some of the others...

With the Larry Willis Belted mag die, I've gotten 10 full house loads out of RWS brass.... and still going.

 

[kentcroy]

Re: Who really makes the best brass?

I shoot highpower mid range, with a sling. About twenty years ago, I bought my first real match rifle, a Remington 40XCKS in 308 Win, at the time I was shooting an old '03 action with an old Douglas barrel in 308, it was good enough to get me into the expert class XTC, the 40X put me into the master class fast. I remember shooting irons at 600, when I had some seven ring fliers I didn't call, having about three K down the tube I figured it was shot out. About that time, life happens, and didn't shoot for a while. I was using FC, Win, Rem, and LC brass. When I decided to start shooting again, I had a gunsmith scope it, and other than needing a good cleaning it was ok. So I coughed up the money for Lapua brass, every one was perfect, no prep work at all exept neck sizing and priming. With a sling and scope at 600, it put me into the high master class. Shot my best score with it, a 200-14x. Now I don't know if Lapua is the best, but it is the best I've used for 308. And in light of not having to spend hours in brass prep, I think it's worth every dime. BTW, I use Norma 280 Rem AI brass, it too was perfect. It's been discontinued, so I'll be switching to Nosler when the time comes.

 

[amlevin]

Well, I had to try. Was walking through Cabela's shortly after I made my initial post in this thread and saw a box of Nosler .308 brass. Was reading the box and if everything stated was true it was the best brass ever formed so I bought a box.

Here's what I found.

The brass was the shiniest I've ever seen out of the box. I also saw more than just a few pieces that had case mouth's so rough it looked like they were chamfered using a rat-tailed file and de-burred using a coarse wheel on a bench grinder. Other than that they looked really ---------Shiny.

I loaded them up and took them to the range. I just used a load I had worked up for some Winchester brass and luckily enough the group sizes were quite small. That was a bonus as I really only wanted to just fire form the brass.

When I got home I checked case neck runout and "What the heck?" Worse than my cheap Winchester brass. Got out the tubing micrometer and found case neck thickness not only thinner than expected (.012" for the min) but varied across the board by as much as .002". OK, so much for "perfect brass" so I got out the neck turning equipment.

After turning all 50 pieces of brass with the tool set for a perfect .012", the cases didn't really clean up. At best the tool cut about 300 degrees max with most of the cuts being around 270 degrees. Worst of all there were three pronounced "bands" that didn't clean up at all. One near the case mouth, one at the mid-point, and another just above the case neck/shoulder junction. On almost all of the cases these three bands where the tool didn't cut at all (a few had about half the band cut, leaving it visible on the remaining half the circumference).

When seating the bullets the first time around I also noticed a drastic difference in seating pressures so I went ahead and annealed the brass before sizing and turning. Almost all of the processed cases measured <.001" TIR when finished but about a half dozen still remained up around .002" TIR.

Primer pockets were extremely tight. So tight that a Ballistic Tools primer pocket gauge (small end) wouldn't even enter the pocket. There was also a very visible ridge at the bottom of the primer pocket on the sides. Just enough to keep a primer from fully seating.

Lastly, every piece of brass was cut to 2.000" +/- .001" A little short for my taste.

Now for the worst part. I held off posting this until I gave Nosler a chance to respond. I sent them the same information and have yet to hear word one from anyone there. Zip, Nada, Zilch. Apparently nobody cares that the product INSIDE the box doesn't live up to what's written on the OUTSIDE of the box.

I've now loaded and shot this brass three times and it's just now reached MY trim length of 2.010" (and just barely) but not enough so I could trim off the "boogered up part of the case mouths those that were messed up.

In short, the Nosler Brass was a waste of money based on the hype. It only lived up to it after it was annealed, neck turned, and had the primer pockets uniformed. No point in paying the extra they demand.

I guess I had to "pee on the fence myself". From here on out any new brass I buy will have a name starting with a capital "L" 8)

Wonder how long the Nosler brass will last?

 

[Brians356]

Now for the worst part. I held off posting this until I gave Nosler a chance to respond. I sent them the same information and have yet to hear word one from anyone there. Zip, Nada, Zilch. Apparently nobody cares that the product INSIDE the box doesn't live up to what's written on the OUTSIDE of the box.

You'll have to call them. I did, about their 223 Rem brass (Why was it .005" shorter than minimum case length?) but all I got was "Yeah, so what's your point? We never get any complaints." The attitude was like "We're Nosler, after all."

That neck wall variance of .002" is really not good, that alone should warrant a refund, when they fall all over themselves touting how tight the tolerances are.

 

[Raythemanroe]

I think folks should try newer Norma brass, I have found it to be long lasting and consistent..


Ray

 

[Keith Glasscock]

I've seen some poor tolerances even from the big L (among others).

The difference is how the manufacturer treats you if you find a bad batch. In my case, I can say for certain that Lapua will make it right, no matter what it takes.

I've skimmed turned more than my fair share of brass. Bands happen - even on the best brass.