Who makes the BEST expander mandrel?

[amlevin]

Which company makes the absolute best expander mandrel. One that is precise in size, nice and smooth, and not prone to galling of the brass, even when using the old standby lubes like Imperial Sizing Wax or Hornady Unique?

Does anyone make a Carbide expander mandrel? Perhaps one that lube is unnecessary for use?

Currently I am using a Sinclair and for some reason it seems like it just wants to reach out and grab little bits of brass from my case necks, regardless of what lube I use. The surface appears smooth enough but not "mirror finished" like the inside of most of my dies.

Any Ideas? Suggestions?

 

[GSPV]

I use a Neilson expander for my Pumpkin. OTOH, I haven't had any issues with K&M or Sinclair.

 

[Leaddog]

Check out 21st Century. The Titanium Nitrate mandrels are the best I've used.

 

[Lapua40X]

I've had good luck using these:
http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloading-equipment/case-preparation/neck-turning/turning-expander-mandrels/sinclair-generation-ii-expander-dies-prod38807.aspx
but these are likely just as good and a bit less expensive:
http://www.21stcenturyshooting.com/3_8_Expander_Die_Body.php

 

[gsg5pk]

K&M

 

[jlow]

Amlevin, I use the both the K&M and Sinclair the expander (different usage) and I polish both of them to a mirror like finish with the expander chucked on a drill press and using “No 7 Rubbing Compound”.

The only time I had any galling was the very first time I used the K&M when I did not put Imperial on it :-[. Other than that, both of them never had any galling. That rubbing compound was available at Ace Hardware and was pretty cheap and will last you a lifetime.

 

[Preacher]

Plus 1 for polishing the K&M mandrel to a high polish, and getting back to work without problems..

 

[Trevor60]

I had the same question/concerns you did so what i decide to do was get the carbide neck turning mandrel as my expander and will have the neck turing mandrel also carbide turned down .001 under my expander the carbide is harder smoother and because it is already .001 under the normal size of a typical expander there will be less force/friction to expand the brass.

Down side is cost. check out the price difference between the two types of expanders.

I do a lot of brass

Take Care
Trevor

 

[Clancy]

The best mandrel comes from the same people that make your other turning tool.

In other words, I'd take an Adams and Bennett barrel chambered for my gun over a Krieger chambered for another.

I have ruined a lot of brass trying to mix and match turning components.

 

[jlow]

That polish I mentioned is also great for taking off the galling if you have that problem.

 

[Clod-NC]

Hi amlevin,hi all

Sorry to sort of "hijack" the thread,but it seems,contrarily to what I gathered from reading many topics on neck turning,that you're ready to use expanding mandrels of a different make from the turning mandrels...Quite puzzling from what I'd come to consider bad to do...So it means I can use a 21st century mandrel with a PMA,or a Hornady turner for instance???I'd be glad if this is confirmed....
This site is definitely too good to be true...Cheers to all.

 

[Clancy]

Nope don't do it! Just my opinion...
But a loooot of people share it.

 

[LRPV]

I just bought some PMA tool equipment and I'll throw them in the ring for the nicest expanders. They aren't coated and they aren't carbide, but they are nicely tapered on both ends and seem to work extremely well. The PMA expanders I have will not allow the use of K and M turning mandrels however.
Jason

 

[Clod-NC]

Hi Clancy

Thanks for your answer,that's exactly what I thought was the good thing to do,from reading G.Salazar's articles,or others';and now some folks come up with "what, in your opinion,is the best expanding mandrel on the market?"and it puzzles me sort of,because if you buy Hornady's neck turner,then what expander mandrel do you use?Or PMA(I haven't heard yet of a specific mandrel from them),or Forsters,to name but a few...And thereupon,if you buy Sinclair neck turner you have Sinclair mandrels to go with it,same with 21st Century,K&M....At least that's how I understand it.

 

[kelbro]

An expanding mandrel is an expanding mandrel... sort of.

If it's the correct size to provide the correct tension, and it is well polished, it will work.

 

[timeout]

I have not tried the polishing process yet, but I will. I just can't understand why no one makes the carbide mandrel. I bought carbide pistol dies years ago and they are night and day compared to regular dies. I can only believe the same would be true for expander and neck turn mandrels. I have tried the titanium nitrade coated and in my minimal experience, the only difference I noticed was in the price. My main lube of choice is Imperial, but have tried some others.

 

[Clancy]

Thing is. Forsters pilots are ever so slightly undersized. They say u don't have to use one. I bet hornady is the same.

But here's the thing... Good enough is good for a lot of folks. It never has been for me. I don't like my necks to show anything but a mirror finish.

I don't consider myself a great neck turner, but I know what tools give the best results, know what I mean?

I was going to buy 300 pieces of turned new brass from a smith (pretty reputable one) the other day and it looked like it has been turned by a badger.
When I asked him he just said it fits the chamber so it is good enough. Some people.... Thankfully he hasn't done any work for me.

 

[jlow]

I have not tried the polishing process yet, but I will. I just can't understand why no one makes the carbide mandrel. I bought carbide pistol dies years ago and they are night and day compared to regular dies. I can only believe the same would be true for expander and neck turn mandrels. I have tried the titanium nitrade coated and in my minimal experience, the only difference I noticed was in the price. My main lube of choice is Imperial, but have tried some others.

I think the reason is they are not really needed.

The degree of sizing for pistol brass is much greater than what is needed for expansion for neck turning. If you do your job in terms of smoothing out the mandrel and using the proper lubrication, the whole setup works like a charm with no galling and the neck thickness is almost always the same (or at least as far as my Mitutoyo digital tube micrometer can measure which is down to 0.00005”) or if they are off it is usually within 0.0001” to 0.0002”.

Why pay a bundle for something is not needed?

 

[timeout]

I have not tried the polishing process yet, but I will. I just can't understand why no one makes the carbide mandrel. I bought carbide pistol dies years ago and they are night and day compared to regular dies. I can only believe the same would be true for expander and neck turn mandrels. I have tried the titanium nitrade coated and in my minimal experience, the only difference I noticed was in the price. My main lube of choice is Imperial, but have tried some others.

I think the reason is they are not really needed.

The degree of sizing for pistol brass is much greater than what is needed for expansion for neck turning. If you do your job in terms of smoothing out the mandrel and using the proper lubrication, the whole setup works like a charm with no galling and the neck thickness is almost always the same (or at least as far as my Mitutoyo digital tube micrometer can measure which is down to 0.00005”) or if they are off it is usually within 0.0001” to 0.0002”.

Why pay a bundle for something is not needed?

There are many instances in handloading for various calibers that sizing does mimic the degree to which pistol brass requires. Perhaps not for your standard everyday, sporting goods available ammunition. Maybe I am too anal, but I like the inside of the necks on my brass to come out bright and shiny. I have had too many experiences where they are scored during the expanding process. This has happened with more than one companies equipment and despite clean necks and lube. I don't care to have to polish the inside after expanding. I try for perfection in reloading because my shooting skills have room for improvement. I want to know that when a bullet doesn't land where I expected it to, it was by no fault of my ammo. IMHO there is a need for carbide mandrels. I'll pay the bundle.

 

[jlow]

I have not tried the polishing process yet, but I will. I just can't understand why no one makes the carbide mandrel. I bought carbide pistol dies years ago and they are night and day compared to regular dies. I can only believe the same would be true for expander and neck turn mandrels. I have tried the titanium nitrade coated and in my minimal experience, the only difference I noticed was in the price. My main lube of choice is Imperial, but have tried some others.

I think the reason is they are not really needed.

The degree of sizing for pistol brass is much greater than what is needed for expansion for neck turning. If you do your job in terms of smoothing out the mandrel and using the proper lubrication, the whole setup works like a charm with no galling and the neck thickness is almost always the same (or at least as far as my Mitutoyo digital tube micrometer can measure which is down to 0.00005”) or if they are off it is usually within 0.0001” to 0.0002”.

Why pay a bundle for something is not needed?

There are many instances in handloading for various calibers that sizing does mimic the degree to which pistol brass requires. Perhaps not for your standard everyday, sporting goods available ammunition. Maybe I am too anal, but I like the inside of the necks on my brass to come out bright and shiny. I have had too many experiences where they are scored during the expanding process. This has happened with more than one companies equipment and despite clean necks and lube. I don't care to have to polish the inside after expanding. I try for perfection in reloading because my shooting skills have room for improvement. I want to know that when a bullet doesn't land where I expected it to, it was by no fault of my ammo. IMHO there is a need for carbide mandrels. I'll pay the bundle.

Seems to me the amount of expanding you are doing prior to neck turning depends on how much you size down the neck. The neck will be too big after you fire the round and so you will need to size it down when you either FLR the case or at least bump the shoulders back. If you size the neck down minimally at this step then you will reduce the amount of work hardening plus you will only need to expand it very slightly so that it fits your turning mandrel.

So what am I missing in turns of why you will need to have such a heavy sizing with the expander?