Who laps scope rings?

[Brians356]

Here's an article on a Sako .338 Lapua using basically the same insert type rings as the Burris. As far as hard impact, I'm not sure any mount system would hold up to a good whack on the rocks while out hunting. And wouldn't the JB weld also crack if hit hard enough?

http://www.accurateshooter.com/guns-of-week/gunweek069/

Fantastic article! What a lifestyle. I was particularly interested in the article because I have distant relatives in Norway I've visited in the past, and I've been in that coastal area he describes - in fact within 15 miles of his village! The photos brought back pleasant memories.

A very interesting tidbit from that Sako hunting rig article:

In Norway, you must pass an actual shooting test before you can hunt big game. This test requires five shots at a deer silhouette target at 100 meters. No rests are allowed–you must shoot off-hand or with a sling only. You have to place five shots inside a 30 cm circle over the front leg.

If they implemented such a test in the US, I wonder what percentage of our gazillions of hunters could pass?
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[Ledd Slinger]

Fantastic article! What a lifestyle. I was particularly interested in the article because I have distant relatives in Norway I've visited in the past, and I've been in that coastal area he describes - in fact within 15 miles of his village! The photos brought back pleasant memories.

A very interesting tidbit from that Sako hunting rig article:

In Norway, you must pass an actual shooting test before you can hunt big game. This test requires five shots at a deer silhouette target at 100 meters. No rests are allowed–you must shoot off-hand or with a sling only. You have to place five shots inside a 30 cm circle over the front leg.

If they implemented such a test in the US, I wonder what percentage of our gazillions of hunters could pass?
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I know a few off the top of my head that probably wouldn't land a bullet anywhere on the silhouette target. Lol

 

[Brians356]

I know a few off the top of my head that probably wouldn't land a bullet anywhere on the silhouette target. Lol

Ok, I can't resist telling this story:

In the 1980s in Carson City, NV, I worked with a chap, about 40 years old at the time, who knew I was a rifle hunter. He had grown up on a pepper farm in Arizona. One day he came in my office and announced proudly he had drawn a hard-to-get local mule deer tag, and would be taking his young son on his first hunt.

I made inquiries; He allowed he hadn't hunted in decades. I asked him what he was going to shoot, and he said he had an old 30-06 with a scope he was dusting off. I offered to take him and his rifle out to the county range to sight it in, and practice a little. "Naw", he said, "don't need to. It always hit what I aimed at in the past." I patiently and firmly explained why that was the wrong approach, but he wasn't interested.

Came the Monday after opening weekend. He slouched into my office. "Well, Brian, I should have listened to you." The sad tale was he had spotted a buck some unknown distance away, taken careful aim, and let fly. More than once. I pressed him. To make a long story short, he missed the deer so badly it didn't even flinch, and he expended his whole box of ammo "letting fly" to no avail. In retrospect, it was probably just as well he didn't kill anything.
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[Brians356]

One thing that you should be aware of about 6PPC rounds. Necks are typically thin and bullets have pressure rings. Some powders do not require much neck tension, others do. The pressure ring, combined with minimal bullet in neck and thin necks acts like a ball joint, allowing the bullet to be straightened to the chamber as it is loaded. Once I did a similar test using a H&H gauge that is designed to straighten rounds to push one to a runout of .0035 well beyond what my sizer and seaters produce, chambered the round, and remeasured it. It was .0015. In the past I have been told that measurements of .002 and better are sufficiently good, that no further improvement will be seen beyond that point. That is measured on the bullet at or near the point where the rifling will make contact.

This was a revelation for me. I never liked the idea of seating loose (and long) enough that the bullet could be repositioned in/out with finger strength alone, thereby letting each bullet be final seated by chambering the round. (Not sure how many BR shooters did this, but I recall it discussed in Glenn Newick's amateurish book.)

However, a flat-based bullet seated firmly enough to resist easy finger movement, "just jammed" in the lands, which self-aligns - that's something I hadn't thought of. It may help explain why my very first handloads (223 Rem, H335, 53-gr MK seated out touching the R-700's lands) shot some tiny groups I've not since really improved on. (But I was a much younger and steadier shooter then.)
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[Brians356]

Here's the torque chart I use. Tho I usually don't torque any ring screw more than 20 inch lbs regardless of size. With a proper lapping and/or bedding job with good contact good mild thread locker, you should never need more than that.

Does anyone use LocTite (blue) on ring screws?
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[BoydAllen]

This was a revelation for me. I never liked the idea of seating loose (and long) enough that the bullet could be repositioned in/out with finger strength alone, thereby letting each bullet be final seated by chambering the round. (Not sure how many BR shooters did this, but I recall it discussed in Glenn Newick's amateurish book.)

However, a flat-based bullet seated firmly enough to resist easy finger movement, "just jammed" in the lands, which self-aligns - that's something I hadn't thought of. It may help explain why my very first handloads (223 Rem, H335, 53-gr MK seated out touching the R-700's lands) shot some tiny groups I've not since really improved on. (But I was a much younger and steadier shooter then.)
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On the subject of steady, a lot of short range benchrest shooters prefer to keep their faces off of the stock. For that reason you will see a lot of tall to very tall rings at matches (taller than the tallest of normal factory rings). This can be an advantage even if not shooting free. Beyond that, with a good rest bag setup and a bench that does not move, I see absolutely no movement when looking at targets through the highest magnification scopes. Years ago, I built a home made front rest with a unique top and bag setup that allows me to hold normal hunting stocked rifles just as steady. Of course having a trigger that can be adjusted to a light pull is a big aid as well. A lot of shooters think that their main task to shoot better is holding the rifle so that there is less movement. They never have used a rest/ bag setup that gives no movement.

 

[savagedasher]

Does anyone use LocTite (blue) on ring screws?
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Sure before lock tight we used finger nail polish . On hunting scopes we put in on the bottom of the rings . Larry

 

[Brians356]

Sure before lock tight we used finger nail polish . On hunting scopes we put in on the bottom of the rings . Larry

Nail polish still preferred for trigger adjustment screws?
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[Ledd Slinger]

Does anyone use LocTite (blue) on ring screws?
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Blue loctitite is a medium strength thread locker. I personally feel it is a little too strong for rings because its a pain to remove from screw threads when moving scopes around or re-mounting. Wheeler Engineering makes a good mild thread locker and I use it on everything nowadays, but I don't think you can buy it separately from their scope mounting kits. A bit of your wife's nail polish works really well as a mild thread locker. I bought a bottle of black nail polish for locking set screw nuts on triggers because it sets up faster than the Wheeler thread locker. Almost felt as bad as buying the wife's feminine products when I walked up to the counter with it at the store. Lol

 

[msinc]

Does anyone use LocTite (blue) on ring screws?
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Once I know I have the scope, rings and bases I am going to use on a particular rifle I use red Loc-Tite. I do not want anything to move. If I hunted whitetails in my back yard I probably wouldn't care enough to use it...I have already killed many trophy whitetails. These days it is hard for me just to come up with the time to hunt, and it usually means an expensive trip to another state, so I wont take any chances on having something stupid happen...like rings and/or bases coming loose when I least want them to.
If I ever need to remove the scope, rings and bases I heat up the driver and hold it on the screw until it melts the Loc-Tite and the screw comes out.
If it is a rifle I am trying out and/or I am not so certain I am going to keep it then I don't apply anything until i know I am for sure going to keep it.
My reasoning is this...if you use any Loc-Tite on rings and bases you are probably going to want to heat it to get it lose with no damage, so why not use the toughest stuff they make???

 

[Ledd Slinger]

My reasoning is this...if you use any Loc-Tite on rings and bases you are probably going to want to heat it to get it lose with no damage, so why not use the toughest stuff they make???

Because Loctite states that to remove their red thread locker a localized temperature of 550 degrees F is required on the bolt threads.

http://henkeladhesivesna.com/blog/how-to-remove-red-threadlocker/

No way in hell would I ever put that kind of heat around my optics. Never had mild thread locker slip and I check them every year or after any hard impacts. If traveling for hunting, I never leave home without multpile rifles and all the tools to work on them. Double check everything when I arrive in camp as well.

 

[msinc]

Because Loctite states that to remove their red thread locker a localized temperature of 550 degrees F is required on the bolt threads.

http://henkeladhesivesna.com/blog/how-to-remove-red-threadlocker/

No way in hell would I ever put that kind of heat around my optics. Never had mild thread locker slip and I check them every year or after any hard impacts. If traveling for hunting, I never leave home without multpile rifles and all the tools to work on them. Double check everything when I arrive in camp as well.

Heat the screw driver, touch it to the bolt and remove the screw...no heat anywhere near the "optic"....definitely not enough to cause any harm. Been doing this since the early 90's...if there was even a chance it would hurt my Zeiss or Leica scopes I wouldn't do it either.
My optics get way hotter out in the sun when I am shooting on my range then they ever do removing bolts.

 

[Brians356]

Heat the screw driver, touch it to the bolt and remove the screw...no heat anywhere near the "optic"....definitely not enough to cause any harm.

You'd be able to press your thumb against the ring while doing that. I'd be surprised if it even got very warm. Or, just touch the screw with a soldering iron for several seconds before turning it.
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[Hal]

Is it the rings that aren't true or the scope tube?

I measured a set of Panda rings once and the were true.
The way Kelby makes them as matched sets , it would be hard to be out of round.
Anything can happen.

Hal

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Is it the rings that aren't true or the scope tube?

I measured a set of Panda rings once and the were true.
The way Kelby makes them as matched sets , it would be hard to be out of round.
Anything can happen.

Hal

It isn't that the rings are necessarily out of round, it's that once you torque down a base and torque the scope rings to the base, there's usually something that gets the alignment of the rings out of whack. Only takes a ring twisted a couple thou out of alignment or setting a couple thou higher than the other ring to mess up the ring contact with the scope tube

 

[Brians356]

It isn't that the rings are necessarily out of round, it's that once you torque down a base and torque the scope rings to the base, there's usually something that gets the alignment of the rings out of whack. Only takes a ring twisted a couple thou out of alignment or setting a couple thou higher than the other ring to mess up the ring contact with the scope tube

When I'm starting to attach the upper ring half, while still only finger tight, I use feeler gauges to adjust the gaps to close to equal on both sides, and top/bottom parallel on both sides (4-bolt rings). Once the gaps are equal and parallel, I continue tightening round robin using 1/8th or 1/16th turns until tight, checking gaps frequently. If the bolts are all torqued progressively in small increments, all to a reasonable final spec, and the gaps on both sides are equal, there's little chance you damaged the scope (if the rings are lapped).
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[Ledd Slinger]

Yeah I dont use gap gauges on the tops, but making sure the gaps are even is very important IMO as well. I just use the ol' log eye.

 

[Brians356]

Yeah I dont use gap gauges on the tops, but making sure the gaps are even is very important IMO as well. I just use the ol' log eye.

I'm not really concerned with .001", just select a combination of two or three blades, stacked, that's close, and get the gaps even before starting to tighten. Could use a toothpick for that matter.
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