Which (very accurate) scale for loading at the range?

[DngBat7]

I know this has probably been asked 1000 times. But for loading at the range I am trying to figure out what most people do. I know barrel tuners are popular these days for ppc shooters not to have to adjust loads at the range. I don’t have one. I have a accurate beam scale but the slightest breeze will send it all over. I know people will suggest cheap digital scales found on amazon. Which gets to why I’m asking. Even my A&D 700ct, which is a step up from the 120 drifts if I don’t meet the requirements not to let it, lighting, etc... so how can I ever expect a small cheap digital scale not to be off even by a few tenths at the range. Tenths matter in ppc world don’t they? What do competitive shooters do about this?

 

[3dogs]

Get some small test tubes with screw on tops, weigh powder at home and take to
range

 

[BoydAllen]

At one and two hundred yards, a lot of matches have been won, and records broken, including current ones, with charges thrown directly from a powder measure into a case. Of the powders that are commonly used for 6PPCs, all but one can, with proper technique, and practice, be thrown to +-.1 gr. The exception is 133 and it is more trouble to hit that mark with, which explains the appearance of RCBS Chargemasters at short range matches. If you look at the NBRSA record book, you will see several records are owned by Gary Ocock, and all are with thrown charges. Recently he told me that all of his records shot in the last five years have been with thrown charges of 133. I have played with numerous strain gauge scales costing from over 300 dollars down to under 30. The latest one that I tried, is the cheapest and it is excellent for what I bought it for, checking thrown charges at the range. A friend has a pretty good system. He carefully throws his 133 charges, and checks their weights. About eighty percent of the time they pass muster. The rest get dumped back into the hopper and re-thrown. After trying this with LT32 for a while, he realized that checking the weights was unnecessary. The only problem with throwing charges is that there is a lot of very bad advice out there, that people tend to follow. It is not just consistency that matters. Some techniques are better than others, and some that work the best have not been widely discussed.

 

[BenPerfected]

At one and two hundred yards, a lot of matches have been won, and records broken, including current ones, with charges thrown directly from a powder measure into a case. Of the powders that are commonly used for 6PPCs, all but one can, with proper technique, and practice, be thrown to +-.1 gr. The exception is 133 and it is more trouble to hit that mark with, which explains the appearance of RCBS Chargemasters at short range matches. If you look at the NBRSA record book, you will see several records are owned by Gary Ocock, and all are with thrown charges. Recently he told me that all of his records shot in the last five years have been with thrown charges of 133. I have played with numerous strain gauge scales costing from over 300 dollars down to under 30. The latest one that I tried, is the cheapest and it is excellent for what I bought it for, checking thrown charges at the range. A friend has a pretty good system. He carefully throws his 133 charges, and checks their weights. About eighty percent of the time they pass muster. The rest get dumped back into the hopper and re-thrown. After trying this with LT32 for a while, he realized that checking the weights was unnecessary. The only problem with throwing charges is that there is a lot of very bad advice out there, that people tend to follow. It is not just consistency that matters. Some techniques are better than others, and some that work the best have not been widely discussed.

 

[338 dude]

Get some small test tubes with screw on tops, weigh powder at home and take to
range

My wife got me these from the local craft store you can write your load on top with a black sharpie and a little alcohol on a tissue and it comes right off

 

[BenPerfected]

Boyd,
I use a variant of your system. This way I can pre-prep the brass and use an very consistent powder load by using a tight fitting plastic cap to secure the powder charge on the way to the range.

 

[jackieschmidt]

This is what I use at the range and at matches.

True, it doesn’t weigh within 1/100 of a grain, but it’s pretty darned good.

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/at...6/?temp_hash=31ae521dd66802fffc51d2de7f911cf2

 

[whatsupdoc]

Guy I know uses a RCBS chargemaster to throw charges at the range, battery powered and he uses a box to shield the wind.

 

[bozo699]

This is what I use at the range and at matches.

True, it doesn’t weigh within 1/100 of a grain, but it’s pretty darned good.

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/at...6/?temp_hash=31ae521dd66802fffc51d2de7f911cf2

Jackie,
Is that the rcbs lite? I’ve never seen or used one sorry if it’s a silly question. I have a couple 1500s and a couple of the older rcbs forgot what there called don’t use them anymore
Wayne

 

[jackieschmidt]

Jackie,
Is that the rcbs lite? I’ve never seen or used one sorry if it’s a silly question. I have a couple 1500s and a couple of the older rcbs forgot what there called don’t use them anymore
Wayne

Yes, it is a RCBS Lite. I have found it to be reliable and accurate.

The best thing about it is the wing guard. It’s not the swing out one like on the big unit, where wind can sneak under if you don’t add foam or something similiar. It lifts on and of and fits the unit like a glove, and really works.

I used mine all day today up at Walker county.

 

[bozo699]

Yes, it is a RCBS Lite. I have found it to be reliable and accurate.

The best thing about it is the wing guard. It’s not the swing out one like on the big unit, where wind can sneak under if you don’t add foam or something similiar. It lifts on and of and fits the unit like a glove, and really works.

I used mine all day today up at Walker county.

Thanks Jackie!.... I’ll look into one of them for range work!.... also gonna follow your 7-08 thread very interested in seeing if you go that route!... I have a couple three on hunting platforms but I’m also thinking of building a br 708 good luck with that sir
Wayne

 

[Ron Blain]

At one and two hundred yards, a lot of matches have been won, and records broken, including current ones, with charges thrown directly from a powder measure into a case

While I am not a bench rest type I am a member of Kelbly's Range where for decades the Super Shoot was held and while not shooting I enjoyed attending the shoots. The Super Shoot is or was a big event in the bench rest community. Each shooter has their own bench space for their own loading. Walking the grounds and touring the area I never once saw a scale be it analog or digital. These guys were all using volume metered dispensers like the Harrells. I remember the time when N133 was thee powder but yep, it never metered well. Even the guys just out shooting that are bench rest I have never seen a scale.

Ron

 

[jackieschmidt]

While I am not a bench rest type I am a member of Kelbly's Range where for decades the Super Shoot was held and while not shooting I enjoyed attending the shoots. The Super Shoot is or was a big event in the bench rest community. Each shooter has their own bench space for their own loading. Walking the grounds and touring the area I never once saw a scale be it analog or digital. These guys were all using volume metered dispensers like the Harrells. I remember the time when N133 was thee powder but yep, it never metered well. Even the guys just out shooting that are bench rest I have never seen a scale.

Ron

Things have changed. At any given Match, I feel safe in saying that at least 1/3 of the shooters are now using some type of scale. Maybe more.

The general consensus in Short Range Benchrest was....”if you are in the correct load window, a couple of tenths one way or the other doesn’t matter”.

And it didn’t, until some prominent shooters continued their winning ways with the addition of weighed charges. My gosh, how did we get by all these years.

Many shooters have no ideas just how much variation there is in thrown charges. They tend to take others word for it.It makes no difference what brand of Thrower is used, they all work off gravity. I have an old RCBS powder charger that by today’s standards is crude. But once set, it will throw charges just as accurate, or inaccurate, as my SOTA Bruno or Hensler.

All you have to do is sit down with a good scale and throw a multitude of charges and see for yourself just how accurate the process is. I suppose that is why I use a Charge Master.

 

[powderbrake]

I found that I was not too good at throwing charges with a powder measure, so I used my RCBS Chargemaster on a battery at the matches. It's .1 gr accuracy was better than my shooting/wind reading ability. I found that adding a small bubble level to the deck of the Chargemaster made it operate faster and more repeatable.

I would not bother to take my Fx120i to the range, because of the breezes in the loading room, and the possible other guy on the same table. too much vibration/breezes for it's accuracy.

 

[Ned Ludd]

Unless you have a very solid and vibration-free place to put a "very accurate scale" at the range that is also free from any breezes, it likely won't be very accurate, regardless of the manufacturer. If you're really after similar accuracy in charge weight that you can achieve at home, perhaps the best idea would be to weigh the charges at home, put the weighed charges in glass vials similar to the ones linked below, and take them with you, as has already been suggested. I'm not saying you can't weigh charges with "acceptable" accuracy at the range, just that bringing something like a highly accurate analytical balance to the range is not a good idea as the conditions would likely limit its accuracy and usefulness.

https://www.premiumvials.com/144-pc...MIr8yu-62s6QIVuymzAB3P2A6QEAQYASABEgKiP_D_BwE

Another option might be to try a small portable digital balance. A thread was created last summer about just such a balance, the Gem20:

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/remarkable-little-scale.3985753/

I bought one myself, not really having much confidence in its precision, but I figured what the hey, it's only $20, right? In post #63 on page 4 of that thread, I performed a comparison between charges weighed on the Gem20 and then re-weighed on a very expensive Mettler-Toledo analytical balance. The little Gem20 did a remarkable job (in my opinion). You could get yourself an inexpensive set of calibration weights to go with it, so you'd always have something to check its performance while you were using it:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07K7F7D8K/?tag=accuratescom-20

The two items together would set you back only ~$32, and the calibration weights will be useful regardless of whether the setup performs to your satisfaction at the range. After testing it, my Gem20 went into a drawer and I wouldn't hesitate to weigh charges for an F-Class match on it, if the Mettler ever goes down unexpectedly.

 

[Ron Blain]

Things have changed. At any given Match, I feel safe in saying that at least 1/3 of the shooters are now using some type of scale. Maybe more.

The general consensus in Short Range Benchrest was....”if you are in the correct load window, a couple of tenths one way or the other doesn’t matter”.

And it didn’t, until some prominent shooters continued their winning ways with the addition of weighed charges. My gosh, how did we get by all these years.

Many shooters have no ideas just how much variation there is in thrown charges. They tend to take others word for it.It makes no difference what brand of Thrower is used, they all work off gravity. I have an old RCBS powder charger that by today’s standards is crude. But once set, it will throw charges just as accurate, or inaccurate, as my SOTA Bruno or Hensler.

All you have to do is sit down with a good scale and throw a multitude of charges and see for yourself just how accurate the process is. I suppose that is why I use a Charge Master.

Yes, I guess as scales change so go those who use them. Haven't made it to a Super Shoot in several years now.

When I first began reloading (a long time ago) I think my first throw was a lee followed by a RCBS and every 10 rounds or less I would throw a charge and weigh it so I have to without any doubt agree:

Many shooters have no ideas just how much variation there is in thrown charges. They tend to take others word for it.

My first loads were 30-06 for an M1 Garand and 44 Mag for a S&W 29. Today I use a RCBS 1500 which gets me there just fine. While F Class is nice and all I have problems finding a 500 yard range and now at my age I seldom shoot anything over a .308. But they are accurate .308.

Ron

 

[dcali]

If you want to obsess, you need to pre-weigh at home unless your range is a whole lot nicer than mine (with indoor space you can load in). Otherwise, a chargemaster on a battery (if necessary) is the way to go.