Which Rifle Action.

[ISS]

Another feature in favor of the Terminus Zeus actions; there are NO trigger pins to pop loose and fly across the room or range. They have a screw-in system.

 

[SKWERLZ]

CRF is a little more complicated... but damn they feed nice.

^^^^^

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I was curious, has anyone done a quantitative analysis on rifle actins? What makes the perfect rifle action? There are so many companies that make rifle actions and they mostly profess their design is better than the others. Are they made to a tighter tolerance, finished to a higher tolerance? Would it be a fair comparison between 10 different custom rifle actions? There is a lot of subjective opinions on this matter but no actual statistical data showing one or the other is empirically superior. What are your thoughts? With today’s technology there is a plethora of custom actions. It’s great to have all these options but now the real question is which one stands out above all the rest and why?

Regards,
TonyC

Tony,
I have gone through a bunch of actions. At one time I measured straightness on everyone that came through the shop. 100s of them. Once I found an issue with any particular action I have to check everyone for that issue. No action is perfect. But what I have come to really appreciate is consistency. Even if theres a minor problem area, but every one is the same with no new surprises I am happy. I am coming from the point of view of how much work will it take to make this ignition how I want it and how happy am I when I done? From the competition side of things thats the most important part of the action. In that regard my preference is BAT. Now there are others that are also very good and when your dont with them are very close but require a little more work on my end. Neuvos are probably the cleanest if you have to use an action right out of the box. But again nothing is perfect. From the gunsmiths point of view, straightness and well fitted parts are very important. You cant add material and you cant straighten holes. This is stuff the end user would have no way of knowing. How an action feels means nothing when it comes to accuracy. They also should be smooth, but that is not a sign of quality. Having said that, I am very particular about actions and ignition nd have my own preferences. Theres a bunch of excellent choices these days that people with other preferences may prefer and I wouldnt talk them out of it. Theres probably half a dozen different manufacturers that come through here on a regular basis that produce great shooting rifles.

 

[mauser284]

I was curious, has anyone done a quantitative analysis on rifle actins? What makes the perfect rifle action? There are so many companies that make rifle actions and they mostly profess their design is better than the others. Are they made to a tighter tolerance, finished to a higher tolerance? Would it be a fair comparison between 10 different custom rifle actions? There is a lot of subjective opinions on this matter but no actual statistical data showing one or the other is empirically superior. What are your thoughts? With today’s technology there is a plethora of custom actions. It’s great to have all these options but now the real question is which one stands out above all the rest and why?

Regards,
TonyC

Nope! You will never in your lifetime see such a thing on this site or any other site that has sponsors! In fact if you ask what you just asked in a polite but technical and more precise manner on SnipersHide you will get banned! Why? It threatens the Sponsors if you reveal the little man pulling the levers behind the curtain!

You will never get anything that could be used to hold a manufacture of an action accountable in terms of clearances, tolerances, levels of concentricity or anything else that could be measured.

No one that does custom gunsmithing or builds actions will go on record with what they have measured in their shop or present anything like a spreadsheet with actual measurments taken from customer actions by brand that they have worked on.

You will get answers that sound like a new or used car salesman or politician. You would think that machine work and engineering is some new age thing with multiple truths for each individual with nothing that can be pinned down no actual hard facts.

They can not even tell you exactly what you gain in terms of quantifiable design elements and machine work over a blueprinted factory action in most cases in terms of guranteeded accuracy and precision down range.

Some custom actions have features that are nice to have depending on what you need to do and often times a lot of trendy informorcial cosmetics and feaures that really do not matter to for 75% of the things you would use a rifle for. A lot of time is spent on making the actions look cool for those that want to pretend they are special forces or military/LEO snipers.

A lot of them are still using pre-WWII metals for the action and bolt.

I have no doubt that many of them have slightly tighter clearances and much better tolerances and less tolerance stacking than most OEM actions due to slower production with more advanced modern CNC machines. That said they do not gurantee anything or give you anyway of knowing exactly what you have purchased at a premium. If you let "Tacti-Cool" styling and price tag guide your decision making any of them are great and all of them are great and they are all equal depending on what you want to do. That is a lie of course there is always gradient of precision by company. I assure you someone knows but it would be easier to get a straight answer out of the Government on JFK and UFO's than on who makes the best action!

In the world of gunsmithing compeition guns and tacti-cool wana be sniper rifles there is money to be made marking up each part and that starts with better prices to the 'smiths than to you and I. Some of the magic is real but a lot of it smoke and mirrors. Precision machine work on the action, barrel, reloading and great wind calls! They are not all great or equal though especially once you wonder away from BR actions.

 

[ISS]

Which is why I am going with the Terminus Zeus L for my 300 NM. It meets my criteria and budget. And, like me, the owner is a former Paratrooper and Combat Soldier!!

ISS
Airborne!

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Nope! You will never in your lifetime see such a thing on this site or any other site that has sponsors! In fact if you ask what you just asked in a polite but technical and more precise manner on SnipersHide you will get banned! Why? It threatens the Sponsors if you reveal the little man pulling the levers behind the curtain!

You will never get anything that could be used to hold a manufacture of an action accountable in terms of clearances, tolerances, levels of concentricity or anything else that could be measured.

No one that does custom gunsmithing or builds actions will go on record with what they have measured in their shop or present anything like a spreadsheet with actual measurments taken from customer actions by brand that they have worked on.

You will get answers that sound like a new or used car salesman or politician. You would think that machine work and engineering is some new age thing with multiple truths for each individual with nothing that can be pinned down no actual hard facts.

They can not even tell you exactly what you gain in terms of quantifiable design elements and machine work over a blueprinted factory action in most cases in terms of guranteeded accuracy and precision down range.

Some custom actions have features that are nice to have depending on what you need to do and often times a lot of trendy informorcial cosmetics and feaures that really do not matter to for 75% of the things you would use a rifle for. A lot of time is spent on making the actions look cool for those that want to pretend they are special forces or military/LEO snipers.

A lot of them are still using pre-WWII metals for the action and bolt.

I have no doubt that many of them have slightly tighter clearances and much better tolerances and less tolerance stacking than most OEM actions due to slower production with more advanced modern CNC machines. That said they do not gurantee anything or give you anyway of knowing exactly what you have purchased at a premium. If you let "Tacti-Cool" styling and price tag guide your decision making any of them are great and all of them are great and they are all equal depending on what you want to do. That is a lie of course there is always gradient of precision by company. I assure you someone knows but it would be easier to get a straight answer out of the Government on JFK and UFO's than on who makes the best action!

In the world of gunsmithing compeition guns and tacti-cool wana be sniper rifles there is money to be made marking up each part and that starts with better prices to the 'smiths than to you and I. Some of the magic is real but a lot of it smoke and mirrors. Precision machine work on the action, barrel, reloading and great wind calls! They are not all great or equal though especially once you wonder away from BR actions.

Gunsmiths are paid to chamber and build rifles. Not make spread sheets. I think some people dont understand the reality of the situation. If the expectation is to get actions dead nuts out of the box for your build, get a new hobby. Not going to happen. The fact of the matter is they all need some level of work to make them as good as possible. The real question is how good can they be made? Some things you cant fix. Give me a tight bound up action all day, I can fix that. Give me a loose sloppy action, nothing I can do. Holes and threads inside bolts cant be straightened. Not easily anyhow. And if you straighten threads now you need to make a new shroud to fit. Why I have preferences is those type of things. No you wont find a smith thats going to get on here and run down a company with employees and families that are producing something many people like for their HOBBY. I like to be positive, I recommend good ones. No one needs to know all the issues I have found with actions. The best answer you can get is over a phone call, and it should be really straight to the point. If it sounds infomercial to you then they dont know.

 

[Rob01]

Nope! You will never in your lifetime see such a thing on this site or any other site that has sponsors! In fact if you ask what you just asked in a polite but technical and more precise manner on SnipersHide you will get banned! Why? It threatens the Sponsors if you reveal the little man pulling the levers behind the curtain!

Complete BS. lol

 

[urbanrifleman]

Honestly, it's a great time for availability of really high quality, reasonably priced actions.