I am thinking of taking the Arbor plunge and following with wilson seater die. I am still a lowly service rifle knuckle dragger and take my M1 SECNAV rifle to the 1K to chuck 190's down range. But i am starting to walk erect and wanting to dabble in the Palma game. The question is 1) is the arbor/wilson combo that much better? (i think the answer is yes), and 2) which press? they all look pretty much the same. thanks for the input. ???
Which Arbor Press?
- Thread starter navyrad8r
- Start date
navyrad8r: I have and use both the RCBS Rockchucker 7/8"x14 press, and a Sinclair Arbor Press. My comments are mine alone, and some may disagree, but they are honest experiences, not "I think". For my "conventional" ctgs. like the 223, 22-250, 22BR, 6BR, 308 & 30-06, the RCBS is all I require to produce match quality ammo. Dies used are the Redding FL Type s neck bushing dies, and Forster Ultra Benchrest seater dies with the micrometer adjustable heads. The RCBS is easily heavy enough to full length size when needed, reform brass ( 6BR to 22BR, 220 Russian to 6ppc, etc). The RCBS will do it all. The Arbor press on the other hand is pretty much restricted for bullet seating only using the Wilson seaters with the micrometer heads, (not cheap). Yes, I have neck sized with the Wilson neck sizer bushing die, but the case must be pounded into the die with a plastic headed hammer, then knocked out with the punch. Comparered to sizing with the 7/8x14 dies, more time consuming and just not my idea of precision loading. If you need to FL size, you will still need a 7/8"x 14 press. My 222 Rem & 6ppc cases are formed and sized using 7/8"x14 dies, and only bullet seating in done with the Arbor press. Even bullet seating with the arbor press versus the 7/8"x14 Forster is more time consuming. The Wilson seaters do an excellent job, every bit as good (but I've never been able to find "better") as the 7/8"x14. So, to sum it up: I've never found any advantage to using the arbor press versus a high quality 7/8"x14 with quality dies. The 7/8"x14 press will do more things for you, the Arbor press is "speciality" tool. And that's where they became popular: the benchrest competitors who load on the range, during beaks in firing matches. They are lightweight and very portable, and if their only requirement to seating bullets, they do a fine job. And, at about this time I guess you're wondering why I bought an Arbor press (?). Because I was told they were "the best". I now use it very little, and could easily buy 2 more Forster seaters for the 222 Rem and 6ppc and be perfectly happy. Reviewing you cartridge needs, it becomes even more evident that an Arbor press is not what you want. 
Frank, thank you so much for all the info, i am calling santa clause now to cancel the order. I actually use both an RCBS and Pacific press and just bought new dies this year at perry. i am still being out performed by my M1 at the 1k, but i'm thinking its not the ammo. i don't load at the range or on the road. I will put the money towards more projectiles. happy holidays to you and your family! Cheers!
I've been using the RCBS since 1991 when I bought it new. Several friends of mine bought Arbor presses, looking for that "something extra" in the way of accuracy, and like me, soon discovered that while very good, were no better than high quality "conventional" dies. You would be better served with sliding collet type seater dies like the Redding , Forsters, and others. Been there, done that with my M1 Garand about 20 years ago.
AlNyhus
Silver $$ Contributor
fdshuster said:
Couple of points:
-You don't have to use the micrometer Wilson dies for seating with an arbor press. The standard Wilson non-micrometer seaters work fine with an arbor press.
-For neck sizing with a Wilson die and an arbor, you use a die base and press the case into the die, flip it around and press it out. Pressing it out decaps the case. No need to pound on anything with a hammer unless you want to.
As to which setup works better, that depends on a lot of factors. Great results can be had with both setups, though both may need some tweaking done for best results. Lots of good arbor presses out there. My K&M has given me great service for over 10 years.
Hope this helps.
Good shootin'.
-Alal: And yes, I would agree with you if he were loading for a round, like the ppc,BR,etc, fired in a bolt gun, and requiring only neck sizing: the Arbor press w/ a Wilson neck sizer would work fine. But, he's loading the 30-06 to be used in an M1 Garand, to me that's a whole 'nuther ball game. When I was activily loading for my M1 in competition, a very substantial press (the main reason I upgraded to the Rockchucker) was definately a requirement for full length re-sizing and setting the shoulders back for every firing in the semi-auto. The compound leverage design on the RCBS made all the difference, compared to the old CH I had been using. I just don't see anyway that can be done with a light duty arbor press, like my Sinclair. All my seaters have the micrometer adjustable heads, so setting seating depths for a multitude of different bullets takes only a few seconds.
AlNyhus
Silver $$ Contributor
Frank: Agreed... full length sizing is best done with 7/8"x14 dies.
Very few precision shooters use the 'neck size only' method any more. Proper fitting f.l. dies such as the Redding 'S' offer a lot of advantages. For range use, the small RCBS Partner press gives the power needed for f.l. sizing and is compact enough to be easy to carry along.
Personally, I've found the micrometer tops on the Wilson dies to be more of a nuisance than a help, as adjusting/recording the seating depth is so easy with the standard tops.
Good shootin'. -Al
Very few precision shooters use the 'neck size only' method any more. Proper fitting f.l. dies such as the Redding 'S' offer a lot of advantages. For range use, the small RCBS Partner press gives the power needed for f.l. sizing and is compact enough to be easy to carry along.
Personally, I've found the micrometer tops on the Wilson dies to be more of a nuisance than a help, as adjusting/recording the seating depth is so easy with the standard tops.
Good shootin'.
-Alguys, i am not that much of a knuckle dragger ;D, the M1 is a MKII so its in .308, and fully bedded 8). 185/190Berger vld and Sierra 190MK on top of 44.2gr IMR4320 stuffed into LC virgin brass. afterwards FL size, shoulders back .003~.004. But i thank you all for the info. i am going to buy more projectiles, until the Palma gun arrives!
navyrad8r: Sorry about that. When I see M1, I automatically think 30-06, and when I see the M1A designation it's a 308. Regardless which cartridge is involved though, they are both "big", and being fired out of a military type semi-auto, are not user-friendly for a arbor press with Wilson dies. Traditional press and 7/8" x 14 dies only.
BoydAllen
Gold $$ Contributor
A little accuracy tip
One of the best service rifle shooters that I know, a high master, loads with a small base FL die that has a custom neck ID that is designed to give the correct neck sizing with Lake City bras that he uses. Most one piece FL dies over size the neck, and when the expander ball is dragged back through the drag is enough to pull on the shoulder hard enough that it changes shape, yielding on the weaker side (The material is not of uniform thickness.). This cocks the neck, and no seater can fix a crooked neck. The bullet will follow the neck as it is seated. By optimizing your FL process to produce the straightest possible cases you can improve the overall quality of your ammunition. Straighter is better. A Forster seater is fine for your application. After your bullets are seated, sort your ammunition with a concentricity gauge, reserving the straightest ammo for the prone stages.
One of the best service rifle shooters that I know, a high master, loads with a small base FL die that has a custom neck ID that is designed to give the correct neck sizing with Lake City bras that he uses. Most one piece FL dies over size the neck, and when the expander ball is dragged back through the drag is enough to pull on the shoulder hard enough that it changes shape, yielding on the weaker side (The material is not of uniform thickness.). This cocks the neck, and no seater can fix a crooked neck. The bullet will follow the neck as it is seated. By optimizing your FL process to produce the straightest possible cases you can improve the overall quality of your ammunition. Straighter is better. A Forster seater is fine for your application. After your bullets are seated, sort your ammunition with a concentricity gauge, reserving the straightest ammo for the prone stages.
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