Which .20 caliber?

[mefizto]

Greetings all,

perhaps for the sake of my wallet, I should not have found this forum. After having received an advice on my first powder burner, I have found (another) rifle based on Remington Fireball action. As such, I have been contemplated to acquire it and having the other re-barreled on a .20 caliber. The intended purpose is target shooting and pest control.

I have been contemplating either VarTarg or some variation based on 222 case (20-222, VarTargTurbo) as I have been hoarding brass for both. I have searched for opinions, but it appears that both are liked, namely by the people who own them, so this did not help.

So I was wondering about two issues:

1. Can a variant of the 222 case be built on the FB action? That is, will the action accommodate a magazine for the longer 222?

2. If not, the decision is easy, otherwise, could those of you who have or had both comment on your preference?

Kindest regards,

M

 

[DogBuster]

Just finished loading 400 rds of Vartarg (OAL of 1.886") 32 V

Have 500 rds of 20-222 next in line to load....(OAL of 2.195") 40 V

Both high mileage tubes......s/shot actions

 

[CWB]

20 Vartarg is hard to beat for a fun shooting gun!

 

[22vartarg]

+1 for 20 VarTarg

 

[Oso]

Both Remington M700 and M7 actions will fit the .222 Rem case length. The key difference between factory chambered Remington rifles chambered in .222/.223 and a .221 Fireball is location of extractor. If the rifle is one of the rare few that Remington chambered in .221 Fireball then the extractor is positioned at different location (closer to 1-2 o'clock) on bolt to facilitate the extraction/ejection of the shorter Fireball case. If it has the repositioned extractor then this might be a minor annoyance with the longer .222 Rem case.

Remington uses the same magazine follower/spring in M700 rifles chambered for .222 Rem and .223 Rem (case length is close). I can't remember if they used a different width spacer in the magazine box and shortened the mag follower/spring for .221 Fireball.

If rifle already has modified extractor for Fireball then answer is simple... 20Vartrag!

 

[itchyTF]

Looks like you’ve already decided on the 222 case, but there is also the 20 Practical (223). Only case prep is necking down.

 

[Woodchk]

I have a .20 Tactical , .20 Vartarg and a .20 BR . . If I was going to build my first one I would do a .20 Vartarg . You can’t go wrong a wonderful varmint cartridge .

 

[Tommie]

Just neck a .221 case down to .20 cal and run with it.

 

[KY_Windage]

I'd go for one based on the 222 Mag case, you know, like the 204 Ruger.

My buddies have VT's. They are okay, but I can't see going to all that trouble just to shoot the same bullet a little slower. Ditto for the Practical.

 

[Spook]

recently spun up a 20-223AI imp on an M7, I like being able to use Lake City 5.56, theres usually enough laying on the ground at the range to keep me supplied.

 

[Jwhip]

I’ve got a 20 Practical (20-223) and a 20 VT. VT is extremely efficient, accurate, and easy to load, just neck down the 221 FB brass, I’ve never had any troubles.

I never considered needing a turbo since I can get 3600FPS with 35 grain Berger’s and 3800+ with 32 grainers; I’m no Hot Rodder, so no pressure signs there. Quite frankly I don’t think a prairie dog, ground hog, or a coyote can tell the difference in 1-200 FPS. So VarTarg for me.

 

[6BRAckley]

The "trouble" in my opinion is twofold - slightly higher cost of brass (using 221 lapua cases) and the higher costs of dies. I don't see many issues outside of these b/c the process of necking down the brass forms the 30 degree shoulder so there is no need for an extra fire forming step - especially if you are just shooting varmints with it. The Lapua formed cases will also probably outlast any available 204 ruger brass too

The upsides are big - less barrel heat and noticeably less recoil from my experience. The first day I shot a vartarg I quickly noticed both of these. I shot 30+ rounds fairly quickly at squirrels and the barrel was only warm. A few years later after selling one of my vartargs (always thinking the grass is greener...) I shot another 204. Putting 10 more grains of powder for each shot down that same size bore helps create a lot more barrel heat (and wear). The vartarg is so easy to get shooting well...Reloader 7 or H4198 with 32gr bullets has shot small in every one I have known about. Several people also really like AA2200 powder too but I haven't tried it. It truly is a great little cartridge and if I could only have ONE varmint rifle for out to 400 yards it would be chambered in this.

JP

I'd go for one based on the 222 Mag case, you know, like the 204 Ruger.

My buddies have VT's. They are okay, but I can't see going to all that trouble just to shoot the same bullet a little slower. Ditto for the Practical.

 

[pintopete]

Mefizto, the easiest, common .204 choices are:
.204 Ruger
20/223 - Lapua brass
20/222 - Lapua brass

Somewhat harder choices:
20 Vartarg
20 Vartarg Turbo
20 Ackley, pick your version.

I think it depends if you want simplicity, or a cartridge that needs some forming work, and likely custom dies. Personal preference. The 20/223, and 20/222 as well as the 20 Vartarg & 20 Vartarg Turbo all get rave reviews. Range & velocity are also factors that would guide your decision. It is not easy to find bullets heavier than 40gr. I believe Hornady stopped production on the 45gr SP bullets. Again, it depends on what you want to do with your rifle.

Best of luck, Peter.

 

[DogBuster]

20 Vartarg..Lapua brass if desired

 

[rickiesrevenge]

Be different. 20 javelina or javelina improved

 

[Prose]

Love my Vartarg, but my 17 FB is even better.

 

[mefizto]

Greetings all,

thank you all for your replies. Regretfully, the sale fell through. From your replies, cf. Oso's, I understand that the Remington .221 FB action is desirable for non-problematic feeding of the short projectiles (FB, VarTarg).

Thus, I will have to revisit the issue based on acquisition of another (barreled) action/rifle. If it is Remington .221 FB, I will build a VarTarg, if a regular one, I can (1) build 20-222 on the action, (2) build regular 222 and re-barrel the .221 FB to VarTarg, or (3) build 20-222 on the action and re-barrel the .221 FB to VarTarg, which would simplify reloading components (same bullets).

As I mentioned in another thread, I am partial to Remington 700 action because of my preference for two-stage trigger. If anyone has such a (barreled) action and contemplate sale, please let me know.

Kindest regards,

M

 

[Sniper338]

20 vartarg here.

 

[B23]

Just neck a .221 case down to .20 cal and run with it.

The above is very good advice!

If you already have an action that came from the factory chambered in a Fireball cartridge and you're looking for something 20 cal go buy a couple hundred pieces of Lapua 221FB brass and make life easy for yourself with a straight neck down 20-221 build. Nothing against the 20 VT but a 20-221 will do anything and everything the 20VT will but with less brass prep and less expensive dies. I prefer Redding dies and for a 20-221 I'd get a 221FB bushing sizing die and I use their competition seating for everything so I'd get a 221FB comp. seating die too.

I have a 20-222 that was built on a SA Rem 700 that started life as a 223 and it shoots tiny little groups and feeds like butter so if someone was looking for a little more velocity than what a .20 off of the little FB case delivers the 20-222 is an excellent choice. The next step up in velocity from the 20-222 would be a 20-223 or 20 Practical as some call it.

The 20-221, 20-222, and 20-223 are all straight neck down cartridges that are easy peasy and will all shoot equally well as anything else with a "improved" case design.

 

[mefizto]

Hi B23,

I have been reading about the differences between the 20-22X and the VarTarg/VarTargTurbo and I actually found several individuals advocating your approach.

If I understand correctly, the only difference between them is that the 20-22X retains the 23 deg shoulder and the VarTarg/VarTargTurbo has a shoulder angle 30 deg. In one of the discussion, the issue came up and according to a supposed quote from Todd Kindler:

"the 30 degree shoulder angle is not cosmetic or magic reason. It is a good way to improve case life by limiting case stretch and trimming brass all the time. I to like to shoot but, hate trimming brass."

Now, please understand that I am a total ignoramus, so it is beyond my current ability to ascertain the (de)merit of the different shoulder angle. However, considering, arguendo, this to be correct, I wonder whether it makes a real life difference.

The above aside, I want to ask you about the "less brass prep" you mentioned. Again, if my understanding is correct, turinig .22X cases to 20-22X requires a single step of a neck-down, while turning .22X cases to VarTarg/VarTargTurbo requires two (1) shoulder angle adjustment and (2) neck down. Is this correct?

The second question is on your suggestion to "get a 221FB comp. seating die". How can it work since the bullet is a different diameter. I actually have a Forster seating die, since supposedly one can just change the inner parts.

Thank you for your valuable contribution.

Hi Jwhip,

can you clarify the statements:

"VT is extremely efficient, accurate, and easy to load, just neck down the 221 FB brass, I’ve never had any troubles. . . . So VarTarg for me."

Based on the above, the statements are contradictory.

Kindest regards,

M