Where does annealing fit into the order of brass prep??

[DJSBRS]

I recommend annealing first. Then size, brush lightly inside neck with bronze brush or 0000 steel wool. Clean or square primer pockets as needed. For consistent neck tension and bullet grip, tumble polish until clean and smooth.

If ultrasonic cleaning, this should be done first with spent primers removed.

DJ's Brass Service

 

[1066]

SS tumble - anneal - size for me.
Just thought for anyone using wire wool anywhere near the reloading bench and also using beam scales. I see a fair few beam scales that are "sticky" only to find a very fine hair of wire wool stuck to the damping magnet and touching the damper blade, especially on the 10/10 and the 5-10 scale where the magnets are a bit hidden away.

 

[PALarson]

LRPV, I don't think you can get consistent neck tension with dirty necks that's for sure. Following the sonic cleaning I usually run a Chucking reamer or Sinclair/Wilson reamer just to be sure that any donuts that are growing are eliminated. Then I run each case through the Redding type S with a bushing that compresses the necks about 1/2 way down or so. I continue to use an expander button, some competitors don't like to use expanders, but I feel that they help in the neck tension being uniform. The reason I size the neck 1/2 way is for the unsized portion to absolutely keep the case centered in the chamber, this probably isn't needed, but it sounds good to me. I learned this from some very good bench rest boys. That's about it, my guns when loaded properly will shoot well under 1/4 MOA that gives me a lot of confidence when competing.
Paul Larson Mid Range and Long Range HM

 

[LRPV]

I have never tried the ultrasonic cleaning but I know that when using unfired brass that seating force is all over the board and very herky jerky. After firing the carbon left inside the neck smooths this out. I would assume that ultrasonic cleaning leaves your necks shiny and clean just like virgin brass and this just seems like a bad idea from my experience anyway. I'm running a no turn dasher right now and my thoughts about the expander are mixed. I think that if you match the bushing and expander button closely that with no turn brass especially, it should give you more consistent neck tension. It's been quite some time ago, but I read that John Whidden was going to offer expander buttons in 1/2 thousandths increments for his dies. I thought that this would be a good idea just to iron out any out of round spots in the neck while not causing any undo stresses.

Jason

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Steve, I don't like beating up the case mouth with SS. pins…… I don't like tumbling or vibrating them either for that reason.I see no reason to do any of this it does not add to accuracy……. It may look pretty in the box but what is really nice to look at is a very small group or a clean…So i anneal, deprime, clean the primer pockets and flash holes, clean the outside with 0000 steel wool and a nylon brush on the inside of the neck…… done…….. jim

I do the exact same thing except I steel wool before I anneal. I only vibrate my brass when I am being lazy. I sold my s.s. media and tumbler after I used it. It beat the crap out of my perfect necks. Now, before you say ''I trim and chamfer so it doesn't matter''. Dasher brass does not grow, I hardly ever trim. Second, the peeping also work hardens the brass at the mouth. No trophy for shiny brass. 1k testing has shown me less vertical with carbon in the neck over clean cases with graphite lube.

 

[Killshot]

Come on guys, cases submerged in water in a small space being "massaged" by SS pins that weigh about .10 grains each is going to work harden brass? :

Even if it did (it doesn't) we're annealing after the cleaning.

As for peening, I find it occurs only with cases size .308 and up or (and most likely) you're loading more brass into the tumbler than you should. It's the cases knocking into each other which causes it. And a simple chamfering corrects it.

Leaving carbon in the necks is just introducing a variable you can't control.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

If they peen they harden (they do). If one part of the neck is harder before you anneal it will still be harder after you anneal. Do the testing. Load up some rounds with necks prepped in different ways and fire them at 1k, measure the vertical. My comments don't come from theory.

 

[johara1]

Alex, You have to remember that we as bench rest shooter are looking for very small groups, sub 2" five shot groups or sub 4" ten shot groups and they are coming from F class and XC shooters that don't demand the level of accuracy we need. Their guns don't show them the difference in terms of grouping because they are chasing the spotter,one shot at the time. The gun has to be capable of groups at 100 yds. of less than a .1 to see any meaningful improvement that the peening causes and the order you anneal in. I was XC master so long they gave a lifetime card, they didn't have F class then but i sure shot a lot 1000 yds. with a bolt gun, so i been on their side but an the the bench rest side i let the records speak for themselves…… jim

 

[smoking-brass]

It does seem that i am the only one who does it this way, i look at it from the pure accuracy side and from a different discipline. You guys are F class and XC shooters that don't need the accuracy level needed to be competitive at 1000 yd. bench rest. So do it your way or try mine and be amazed……. jim

I agree with you Jim...by the way I shoot f-class with my 6brass
Vince

 

[savageshooter86]

Spoke to very successful Palma and high power shooter who says for him annealing is waste of time to him. Guess everyone has own thoughts and methods. He does very well

 

[johara1]

I would guess you can say they don't have the need for extreme accuracy or if they did, they would be more successful …… jim

 

[savageshooter86]

Guess high lower and Fclass is different. As he has 3 national championships ave several other titles and state level wins

 

[dannyjbiggs]

All I would just say about it is, "If you like your order of annealing in the brass preparation phase...you can keep it. Period.

Danny Biggs

 

[PALarson]

Lets not sidestep the major reason for annealing, 1 is for consistant neck tension, if you can obtain consistant neck tension without annealing fine, the other reason 2 is to extend the life of $ 1.00 each brass. Annealing sure fits that billing. It can extend brass life as much as 10 times over non annealing. Sooooooo do what you feel best for your situation.
Paul Larson Long Range and Mid Range Hi Master.

 

[johara1]

I have over a 100 firings out of Dasher brass do to annealing, and the cost of brass is one thing but all the work and time put in to it is the main thing and barrel wear is the other. Now a friend of mine has developed a tool to tighten the primer pockets and return the base to it's original size. life may have gotten better…….. jim

 

[spclark]

Now a friend of mine has developed a tool to tighten the primer pockets and return the base to it's original size. life may have gotten better…….. jim

There've been products touting this capability before. Given the cost of brass (when you can find what you need!) a workable solution would be welcome news to many folks here.

Can you provide details? Maybe a pic or two? Inspire your friend to join us here & bring us up to speed on his device?

 

[amlevin]

I have over a 100 firings out of Dasher brass do to annealing, and the cost of brass is one thing but all the work and time put in to it is the main thing and barrel wear is the other. Now a friend of mine has developed a tool to tighten the primer pockets and return the base to it's original size. life may have gotten better…….. jim

Is it like the R W Hart tool that's sold by Midway (and others)?

 

[johara1]

It will not be available till the first of the year it is simple and easy to use i was told, i will have more info. so as i get one……. jim

 

[PALarson]

100 firings with Dasher brass is great, anneal and you can get 200.
Paul Larson

 

[Hoier]

He says the 100 firings happened because of annealing.