Where Do I Go From Here?

[crockersmith]

This is my best shooting to date at about 275 yds. and it has taken over two years of practice and load development to get to this point. Savage 12LRPV bolt action, single shot .223. Sightron Slll 8-32 scope.
I want to keep moving forward but am not sure which direction to go. I have thought about sending my rifle to a gunsmith to "tune" it up or getting an even better scope or even investing in more precise (expensive) reloading tools. And then, of course, there is the shooting talent area that obviously will remain a challenge for me.
I have a somewhat limited budget but am willing to invest in something that will make a worthwhile difference.
I am open to any and all suggestions. Thanks

 

[Tozguy]

Just a thought but I would say you have reached the point of diminishing returns with that rifle. Your group (if typical of your results) is pretty darn good for 275 yds. I suggest you try a benchrest competition or two in the factory class for some exposure to what might be next..... windflags, mirage doping, bench setup, etc.

 

[SpencerC]

Where do you go from here? Back to the range to keep practicing. You don't sound that confident in your own ability and it doesn't matter what you buy unless you can make use of it. Nothing wrong with that scope at all, no need to spend 2K on something else unless your wallet is making you lopsided and that is where you get pulled shots from

What do you have for loading equipment? Are you still using the factory barrel? Factory trigger?

 

[Johnboy]

I too shoot a factory rifel in a 5R chambered in a 223.my load is with a 69gn NCC that shoots a 1.5-1.750 15 shoot group at 300.to me the rifel and load is really working for me.it just shoots that load any given time for me and the wife.I guess what I am trying to say is run with it.the load,rifel and you are really working together.just think of it this way.thats a head shoot no matter how you look at it.


like others have said your set up is right on the money.keep shooting and time will only tell weather things get better or worse.and if you are still not happy with that scope then I'll trade you a leupold 4-12x40mm AO. ;D
again you seem to be a litttle of key with your shooting.just take it ine day at a time.you have done all you can do for that load/rifel it seems.enjoy what you have learned and come to do.the load is great.

 

[watercam]

First of all that is a pretty good group from a factory rifle. Aside from playing with seating depth the one thing you can easily check to see if your reloading efforts are as good as they can be is a concentricity gauge. Check your bullet and neck run out and see if they are under .001-.002".
If not, and you are not using match seating and neck bushing dies, that is one area that makes a big difference to me. If you are not turning the outside of your necks to a uniform thickness, that would be a big part of your loaded round concentricity. Check your fired case necks as well to see if your chamber is straight.
Is your action pillar and glass bedded? That makes a difference. Good triggers are a huge part of shooting as mentioned above.
If all the above is covered, save your money for more bullets!

 

[jonbearman]

I would invest in an aftermarket barrel such as shilen or mcgowen from northland shooters supply.I recently replaced a stock barrel with a mcgowen in .308 win and it shoots .302 groups using winchester brass and hornady match bullets and varget. It almost shoots as good as my benchgun. I really like the mcgowens and they are very affordable.

 

[fdshuster]

You may have reached the maximum level of performance the factory barrel is capable of. You can always rebarrel with a premium hand-lapped barrel & still keep the factory barrel. But be forewarned: once you start shooting a hand-lapped custom barrel, you will never want to go back.

 

[crockersmith]

This is all very good information and I really appreciate it.
The custom barrel and trigger sounds interesting, especially since it will be a long time before I can afford a custom BR rifle. And the concentricity gauge is something that I have been considering for a while.

 

[SpencerC]

Beware of all of the "gadgets" in the precision shooting industry. Some make a difference and others just claim to. I've always been a strong believer in doing as much research about a certain topic before making a conclusion, and even then it is going to at best be a guess until I try it and see results for myself. Personally, if your using decent loading equipment, there is no need for a concentricity gauge. I have not seen any difference in group size/performance from ones that are dead straight .000" all the way up to .005" out. YMMV but that is what I have seen personally.

If you are looking to invest in a barrel, get something that has a proven winning track record. Kreiger, Bartlien, Broughton, Lilja etc... I have a Shilen select match barrel that I am very pleased with, I was surprised at the quality of it, especially for a savage pre-fit, and it shoots very well. I currently have a brand new Broughton waiting to be chambered and I have high hopes for this barrel. Not to mention the wait time was very low, I ordered a custom contour and I still had it in about 7-8 weeks, including importing into Canada and shipped to my door. A HELL of a lot better than the 7 MONTH wait for my Shilen....

Also, when I switched from the Accu-trigger to a Rifle Basix SAV-2 on my model 12, my group size shrunk. It feels a lot better, no creep, light pull weight etc... Not sure if it helped mechanically or mentally, but either way, it worked for me...

Also, you mention BR, is this your intended use of the rifle? My views/opinions stem from an F-class view more than BR, so some, or all lol, may be of little use. As with anything else you read on the 'net, take it for what it's worth.

Cheers!

 

[PREMOD70]

Don't give up and chase gadgets, your group is great except for the one flyer. Keep shooting and see if you can duplicate the problem, then analyze, thats the fun of bench shooting and always remember that it's the rifle, not you, if there is a problem , good luck and good shooting.

 

[woolenmammoth]

Just a thought but I would say you have reached the point of diminishing returns with that rifle. Your group (if typical of your results) is pretty darn good for 275 yds. I suggest you try a benchrest competition or two in the factory class for some exposure to what might be next..... windflags, mirage doping, bench setup, etc.

I was in your shoes a few years back and this is the best advice Ive seen in this thread. I spent stupid amounts of money on all sorts of things that all would have been avoided had I just gone to a match and see what it takes to put five shots in one hole. If you are truly serious about accuracy, you've gotta be shooting over flags, there's no way to know if you pulled a shot, or the wind pushed it out (or in for that matter). So many of the reloading practices and tools, which are great, will get you from %85 to %90 but I bought all that stuff when I was shooting at %70 and couldnt see the difference and it frustrated me to no end...

Go to a match, see what those guys are up to and I promise you'll have a whole new perspective. Bring your rifle and shoot factory class, its great fun and *everyone* will share advice with you. You sooo dont need a new barrel or rifle right now and when you have some cash saved consider a used benchrest rifle which may be shot out for a guy trying to agg under a .2 but will provide plenty of learning time down that "shot out" tube when you get started. Bob White at the shooters corner has a wide (wide) selection of used br rifles that are very fairly priced for what they are and he's like the saint of br sportsmanship so far as Im concerned, couldnt pick a better guy to do business with.

Focus on your shooting first. Perfect reloads are only going into one hole if the operator behind them knows how to read wind and shoot. Check out a match, it will be good perspective.

 

[FroggyOne2]

Why benchrest fellas, can't he shoot F-Class, or how about Highpower? Keep working at it, your next upgrade may very well be a better barrel once that one is shot out, truly think about installing a better trigger (can't wait for Tom M. to come out with those two state triggers for the Savage), which will enhance your accuracy. The rest is good reloading and lots of time behind the buttplate.

 

[1066]

I also have a Savage single shot 12Fin 6BR. It now wears a Shilen select match 1 - 8. It came ready to screw into place and I'm very pleased with the results.
I have also fitted a SAV-2 trigger that feels very crisp and consistant.

To be fair - that's a good group by any standards and nice to actually see a proper group rather than an "internet" group or a lucky 3 shots.

To get tighter than that it's all the tiny little details that add up and don't necessarily cost any money, only time. Really go to town on prepping the brass, annealed necks, de-burr the flashholes, weigh the cases etc.

Oh yes - and keep practicing.

 

[hogan]

Crocker,

You want to tighten up your groups? As you are shooting a .223, your results look very promising and impressive; especially since you leave out so much detail...

Are you shooting handloads or factory ammunition?
Match bullets with some precision assembly care will tighten your groups.

Try a benchrest target with sighter aiming square. Align your reticle with edge of one corner and fire at that point consistently. Study up on trigger let-off. Are you shooting with full sandbagged support? Do you hold the rifle in a death-grip or just hold it to shoulder and allow free recoil? Are you removing the swivel stud from your stock before you shoot?

What kind of groups do you get at 100/200? 5 shots sub .5moa? 52 and 55gr bullets can get iffy as they approach 300yds. At least they will buffet more in the wind. As you say you are interested in a concentricity gauge, you must be a hadloader. Try 68/69 or 75/77 grain bullets and see if your groups don't tighten.

Congrats. Might spend a few evenings setup at home and dry-firing so you can observe if you're able to get an undisturbed trigger release. Costs nothing, but will really tell you what you need to work on...

 

[WyleWD]

If owning a benchrest rifle is your goal, I would keep shooting your Savage as-is and save your money for the benchrest rifle. Your Savage is performing exceptionally well. If it were me I wouldn't spend any money on it or do anything to change it. If it ain't broke, why fix it?

Best Wishes,
LE Hanson

Good post Lawrence! ;D

If you can shoot that type of group under the pressure of competition and its conditions you'll be proud of yourself. There are a MOUNTAIN of expensive custom rifles that will not shoot a group like that at that distance.

Just keep honing your skills including reading the wind, mirage, and conditions. Good group, by the way. WD