Where do I go from here - new load development??

[Wild Thing]

Working on my coyote rifle trying to get a little better tune for an upcoming prairie dog hunt which I've never done before. I have another scope coming with higher magnification for this hunt, but I may switch it over to something with a heavy barrel later on if all goes well (and just keep this one for my coyote hunting).

Started working up a load for my Rem 700 LVSF (Light Varmint) in 22-250. It has a real long chamber/free bore. CBTO to Lands is 2.060 (Didn't check the OAL) but I started at .080" off the lands (OAL - 2.400 - CBTO - 1.980). SAAMI OAL is 2.350. Maybe could have started closer to SAAMI spec but it is obviously a real long ways to the lands.

Testing H-380 powder. Shot 9 - 3-shot groups at 0.5 grain increments starting at 37.0 grains to max of 41.0 grains. Tried to shoot as well as I could but between the mosquitos (horrendous) and the late afternoon sun in my eyes it wasn't easy.

Anyway, this is what my target looked like. Should I work a little more on finding the right powder charge or pick something in the middle (maybe somewhere between 39-40 grains) and start tweaking the seating depth??

Thanks for any recommendations you may have.

Started with a clean barrel but did not clean it again until after I was done shooting.

 

[Fyrchief]

My 22-250 really likes 38 grs. H-380 over 52-55 gr. bullets. Typically .5-.8 MOA groups. Also good results with 33 gr. N-135.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

I have had several factory Rem 22-250's that after seating depth testing like the Noslers at 2.375. I think if you do some seating work with the 38 gr h380 charge you may find a good pd load.

 

[Straightshooter1]

Working on my coyote rifle trying to get a little better tune for an upcoming prairie dog hunt which I've never done before. I have another scope coming with higher magnification for this hunt, but I may switch it over to something with a heavy barrel later on if all goes well (and just keep this one for my coyote hunting).

Started working up a load for my Rem 700 LVSF (Light Varmint) in 22-250. It has a real long chamber/free bore. CBTO to Lands is 2.060 (Didn't check the OAL) but I started at .080" off the lands (OAL - 2.400 - CBTO - 1.980). SAAMI OAL is 2.350. Maybe could have started closer to SAAMI spec but it is obviously a real long ways to the lands.

Testing H-380 powder. Shot 9 - 3-shot groups at 0.5 grain increments starting at 37.0 grains to max of 41.0 grains. Tried to shoot as well as I could but between the mosquitos (horrendous) and the late afternoon sun in my eyes it wasn't easy.

Anyway, this is what my target looked like. Should I work a little more on finding the right powder charge or pick something in the middle (maybe somewhere between 39-40 grains) and start tweaking the seating depth??

Thanks for any recommendations you may have.

Started with a clean barrel but did not clean it again until after I was done shooting.

Your .5 gr increments are too larger for smaller calibers like yours. Buy having such large increments, you'll only be lucky to see what's going on and as I view your target kinda confirms that to me as I can't really make out what's going on well enough to say just what I feel might be working for you. For smaller calibers, like yours, increments of .2- .3 grs give you better view and not tend to skip over a good accuracy node. With that understood, based on what I see on your target, I'd say you might want look at something from 37.5 - 38.4 and retest in that range with smaller increments.

 

[Kevin1990]

^^^^^^^ what he said. 37.5 is where Id be checking.
I'd retest. 37.5-38.5gr shooting round robin in .2gr increments. All that said. I've seen way, way, worse groups from factory ammo, from guys sighting in their guns for varmint hunting, and they all couldn't be happier, and they absolutely starched everyone in tournaments.

 

[762plinker]

inspite of other comments. the original standard was 1/100 of case vol for a step...which would be .4 so .5 AINT THAT FAR OFF. round robin is a nice way of wasting money.
39.5 and 37.5 seem to have the smallest vert..i would retest there, closer to the lands\
what power is this scope and any wind flags ?

 

[big5ifty]

You can't do better than the OCW method for finding the best powder weight.

Dan Newberry's OCW Method.

If I look at your target from that perspective, your optimum charge weight is tucked away around 38.2 . If you repeat the test in two 0.3 grain jumps around the 38.2 mark, it should prove the case. You want to powder increments to be 1% of charge weight for the OCW.

However, if you feel that the results are not reliable because of enviromentals, or if you did not allow the barrel to cool between strings,, it's best to re-shoot - you'll waste less components and get to a reliable result sooner than proceeding with a load of low confidence.

For your use case, when the weather changes, and you're on the correct OCW node, the POI won't shift.

 

[R.Morehouse]

I would play around either side of 38.5........Best of luck on your hunt.

Regards
Rick

 

[Wild Thing]

Thank you all for the comments and suggestions. In summary, it appears that the general consensus would be to test in .3 grain increments in the range of 37.5 - 38.5 grains and one other suggestion to try seating closer to the lands in the area of 39.5 grains.

So...I will do some more testing in smaller increments in those charge weight ranges today.

What would be your thoughts on changing seating depth? Up or down from 2.400? CBTO for the first test was .080 off the lands...should I split the difference and try .040 off?

The scope currently on my rifle is a Leupold VX3- 4.5-14X40. I have a Vortex HS-T, 6-24X50 coming tomorrow which should help quite a bit. My Leupold scope has a Duplex reticle, which for these old eyes, pretty much covered up the 3/4" dot at 100 yards.

It was around 85 degrees yesterday with intermittent winds. I started allowing the barrel to cool for 10 minutes between 3-shot groups, but went to 15 minutes. It was longer for the last 2 groups as I originally just loaded up 7 different charge weights but decided to run 2 more at 40.5 and 41.0 so the barrel was quite cool by the time I loaded those up.

I started with a clean barrel but did not shoot any sighters or foul shots. The first shots on the clean barrel were those on the 37.0 grain charge.

 

[coldboreshot]

Working on my coyote rifle trying to get a little better tune for an upcoming prairie dog hunt which I've never done before. I have another scope coming with higher magnification for this hunt, but I may switch it over to something with a heavy barrel later on if all goes well (and just keep this one for my coyote hunting).

Started working up a load for my Rem 700 LVSF (Light Varmint) in 22-250. It has a real long chamber/free bore. CBTO to Lands is 2.060 (Didn't check the OAL) but I started at .080" off the lands (OAL - 2.400 - CBTO - 1.980). SAAMI OAL is 2.350. Maybe could have started closer to SAAMI spec but it is obviously a real long ways to the lands.

Testing H-380 powder. Shot 9 - 3-shot groups at 0.5 grain increments starting at 37.0 grains to max of 41.0 grains. Tried to shoot as well as I could but between the mosquitos (horrendous) and the late afternoon sun in my eyes it wasn't easy.

Anyway, this is what my target looked like. Should I work a little more on finding the right powder charge or pick something in the middle (maybe somewhere between 39-40 grains) and start tweaking the seating depth??

Thanks for any recommendations you may have.

Started with a clean barrel but did not clean it again until after I was done shooting.

From my observation, 39.5 and 40gns is not a vertical issue. That appears to be a possible inconsistent position-on-the-gun or trigger pull issue. They are the only groups where impact repeat is evident. I would not be convinced of vertical. I don't subscribe to the 3-shot test if evaluating vertical as conclusive. Run up 39.5 and 40 again in 5 shot sets and focus on position and trigger pull consistency and a more prime shooting condition. I don't know how your rifle is set up during testing but on a solid bench with the most variables eliminated would be the best.

 

[JFrank]

Shoot a couple foulers and then reshoot 37.0 -37.5 in smaller increments and you’ll be fine.

 

[coldboreshot]

Thank you all for the comments and suggestions. In summary, it appears that the general consensus would be to test in .3 grain increments in the range of 37.5 - 38.5 grains and one other suggestion to try seating closer to the lands in the area of 39.5 grains.

So...I will do some more testing in smaller increments in those charge weight ranges today.

What would be your thoughts on changing seating depth? Up or down from 2.400? CBTO for the first test was .080 off the lands...should I split the difference and try .040 off?

The scope currently on my rifle is a Leupold VX3- 4.5-14X40. I have a Vortex HS-T, 6-24X50 coming tomorrow which should help quite a bit. My Leupold scope has a Duplex reticle, which for these old eyes, pretty much covered up the 3/4" dot at 100 yards.

It was around 85 degrees yesterday with intermittent winds. I started allowing the barrel to cool for 10 minutes between 3-shot groups, but went to 15 minutes. It was longer for the last 2 groups as I originally just loaded up 7 different charge weights but decided to run 2 more at 40.5 and 41.0 so the barrel was quite cool by the time I loaded those up.

I started with a clean barrel but did not shoot any sighters or foul shots. The first shots on the clean barrel were those on the 37.0 grain charge.

Ok ,sorry, just caught the picture. If that was your setup during testing, might be as simple as preload variation on the bipod. If you can get it up onto a front rest some how, might resolve the issue with those two groups.

 

[big5ifty]

First identify the best node with the OCW, then if you feel you want to improve on it, you can vary the seating depth of that charge and see what it does for the group sizes.

The 39.5 is the smallest group, but not any OCW node. It doesn't share a center point of impact with any other group.

What this means is that the repeatability of the load 39.5 load may not be good, in other words, then next time you load 39.5 and the ambient temperature is different, it may not shoot the same.

Focus on the group size only after you find he OCW node, and are varying the seating depth. Before that, the group size is not important.

I wasted a lot of time and components following "pro" reloading advice. It just made me realise that unless I have their barrel, their chamber, their brass, their bullets - the information they provide is just anecdotal.

I've used the OCW method on two rifles so far, and for the first time I'm developing confidence in the repeatability of my reloads.

 

[Wild Thing]

From my observation, 39.5 and 40gns is not a vertical issue. That appears to be a possible inconsistent position-on-the-gun or trigger pull issue. They are the only groups where impact repeat is evident. I would not be convinced of vertical. I don't subscribe to the 3-shot test if evaluating vertical as conclusive. Run up 39.5 and 40 again in 5 shot sets and focus on position and trigger pull consistency and a more prime shooting condition. I don't know how your rifle is set up during testing but on a solid bench with the most variables eliminated would be the best.

Those 2 were my best groups for sure (both had 2 bullets in the same hole), but the verticals on either side of 39.5 and 40.0 did not match up. I can load up some 5-shot charges in that area as well.

How about changing seating depth? Any suggestions on that?

I have a fairly solid shooting bench as pictured above. I also have a front rest which is also fairly stable. I have been using that with a new Savage .204 I recently picked up...

 

[Gary in MD]

All good advice being given.
But I just won’t use H380 anymore, I had pressure problems many years ago in the summer using it in my 22-250. You’re using it in cooler temperatures for coyotes and also going to the hot prairie dog fields? It’s too temperature sensitive considering all of the good powders available today. I’m using Varget in one of mine now and there are many other good ones. If that’s all you have then keep following the excellent advice being given.
Gary

 

[Wild Thing]

All good advice being given.
But I just won’t use H380 anymore, I had pressure problems many years ago in the summer using it in my 22-250. You’re using it in cooler temperatures for coyotes and also going to the hot prairie dog fields? It’s too temperature sensitive considering all of the good powders available today. I’m using Varget in one of mine now and there are many other good ones. If that’s all you have then keep following the excellent advice being given.
Gary

Thanks Gary - This is the first time I have tried H-380. I do have lots of other powders, including Varget, but I really wanted to try out H-380. Right now I am just working on a PD load for summer usage. I do have another load (different bullet and powder) worked up for my winter coyote hunting.

One thing I found is that H-380 is the "finest" powder I have ever used. It wants to keep running out of the powder charger after it hits the correct weight. I finally propped up the front of my Chargemaster 1500 to slow down that issue, but it has been a little challenging at first.



BTW - I had zero signs of pressure even at 41.0 grains in 85 degree ambient temp.

 

[Gary in MD]

Yep, I get it.
Maybe my feelings on the H380 are also due to the fact that around 35 +- years ago, I managed to stick a bullet in the rifling of a 22-250 that was loaded with it. Dumped about 40 grains of the stuff in the chamber and lug recesses. Oh, what a F'N mess!! I'm not sure if I ever got it all out. LOL Anyway... I went on to 4895, 760, Varget, Big Game, 4064, etc.
Good luck with the loads and keep us posted,
Gary

 

[Wild Thing]

Yep, I get it.
Maybe my feelings on the H380 are also due to the fact that around 35 +- years ago, I managed to stick a bullet in the rifling of a 22-250 that was loaded with it. Dumped about 40 grains of the stuff in the chamber and lug recesses. Oh, what a F'N mess!! I'm not sure if I ever got it all out. LOL Anyway... I went on to 4895, 760, Varget, Big Game, 4064, etc.
Good luck with the loads and keep us posted,
Gary

Ouch - Haven't had to clean up a mess like that yet (Knock Wood).

Thanks again Gary. Will let you all know how it shakes out - hopefully soon.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

Seriously try 2.375 overall length, in factory Rem 22-250 with 50-55 gr Nosler bt. I like H4895 with the 50's, Varget with the 55's. Really Varget will work with 40- 55 gr. Bullets.

 

[Wild Thing]

Seriously try 2.375 overall length, in factory Rem 22-250 with 50-55 gr Nosler bt.

OK - I will try some out like that coyotefurharvester...just for you