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Where are all the Bergers?

ebb said:
Stop your bitchin!
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I agree.

Since Berger has elected to shift their customer base to other customers other than reloaders, I think the best course of action is to find alternatives and leave Berger to whomever they are shipping their products too, since it isn't target shooters.
 
I was just quoting the Berger rep. Not looking to cancel anyone. But perhaps you are right, there have been a lot of gun sales in the last few years, but I doubt precision rifles has grown very much if at all since the cost and ability to feed them is problematic and the price has more than doubled.
 
ebb said:
I was just quoting the Berger rep. Not looking to cancel anyone. But perhaps you are right, there have been a lot of gun sales in the last few years, but I doubt precision rifles has grown very much if at all since the cost and ability to feed them is problematic and the price has more than doubled.
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Yup.

The idea that target shooters have caused a "shortage" in components is ridiculous. It was from the first day that cover story was floated.
 
I don't know whats going on with ammo and components, But I am pretty sure its not what we are being told. I know a bunch of guys that shoot and have guns, none of them have been able to buy anything like what they used to shoot for almost three years now. If all these factories are running 2 and 3 shifts like Jason Vanderbrink says ammo would be available. Biden even says the military is out! There were no shortages when we were at war in Iraq, or the Balkans.
 
ebb said:
I don't know whats going on with ammo and components, But I am pretty sure its not what we are being told. I know a bunch of guys that shoot and have guns, none of them have been able to buy anything like what they used to shoot for almost three years now. If all these factories are running 2 and 3 shifts like Jason Vanderbrink says ammo would be available. Biden even says the military is out! There were no shortages when we were at war in Iraq, or the Balkans.
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Rsrgroup is my distributor. They are the largest in the country. Aside from a few imports of 223 they have no real amount of ammo.

Essentially all of the traditional "Walmart ammo" is gone. Eliminated. Try to find 22-250, or 243, or 270, or whatever old school calibers from the old school manufacturers. Not to mention shotgun shells (which have been basically cut down to nothing). They simply don't exist in any quantity. And will never exist again is my guess.

Someone is arming themselves to the teeth.
 
I've been weaning myself off Berger's for a while. For pdogs and f class, also plinking Hornaday and DTAC's have been plenty good enough. I do dabble with Nosler bullets also. These days I believe I would purchase the VTac's rather than hunting down a 6mm Berger Hybrid.
 
Berger bullets are fantastic, just like Lapua brass is. There can be no question about that. We rely hugely on both of them in precision competitive shooting sports, but we just have to keep in mind that these are both divisions of and owned by the European company Nammo, which itself is mainly an aerospace/defense firm jointly owned by the government of Norway and a Finnish defense firm, with subsidiaries internationally, including its asset, Berger Bullets, of Arizona.

Look at the size of the Arizona Berger manufacturing plant. Is that because of us several thousand regular match shooters (in the world)??? In my opinion Berger was a pretty obvious strategic acquisition pertaining to US defense contracts and Norwegian export neutrality law, - and there is nothing wrong with that, if so - and while competitive shooting and top tier components to hand loaders is a company value held in regard at higher levels, the acquisition was not about Lapua match bullets wanting to merge efforts with Berger match bullets, it was massively larger than that. How many yellow boxes of bullets equal the price and profit of one jet’s Sidewinders. How about, maybe, the margin on all of them we will ever buy?

I’m just glad they hang on to the level of commitment we have seen. Who owns Colt? Who owns Winchester? We are the home of the Second Amendment, but European companies own the “American” companies that make many of the wares that we want to buy.
 
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davidjoe said:
Berger bullets are fantastic, just like Lapua brass is. There can be no question about that. We rely hugely on both of them in precision competitive shooting sports, but we just have to keep in mind that these are both divisions of and owned by the European company Nammo, which itself is mainly an aerospace/defense firm jointly owned by the government of Norway and a Finnish defense firm, with subsidiaries internationally, including its asset, Berger Bullets, of Arizona.

Look at the size of the Arizona Berger manufacturing plant. Is that because of us several thousand regular match shooters (in the world)??? In my opinion Berger was a pretty obvious strategic acquisition pertaining to US defense contracts and Norwegian export neutrality law, - and there is nothing wrong with that, if so - and while competitive shooting and top tier components to hand loaders is a company value held in regard at higher levels, the acquisition was not about Lapua match bullets wanting to merge efforts with Berger match bullets, it was massively larger than that. How many yellow boxes of bullets equal the price and profit of one jet’s Sidewinders. How about, maybe, the margin on all of them we will ever buy?

I’m just glad they hang on to the level of commitment we have seen. Who owns Colt? Who owns Winchester? We are the home of the Second Amendment, but European companies own the “American” companies that make many of the wares that we want to buy.
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Others owned by investment companies that are not American either.
 
My theory is a combination of factors have all come together. The global lockdown disrupted supply lines and is still being felt. Places like the US have had a huge uptick in gun ownership, admittedly not precision bullet buyers mostly. I did read 9 million new owners, multiply that by hundreds of rounds, it all takes copper, brass, lead, powder and primers. The war in Ukraine must be sucking up 100's of millions of rounds. The Western powers are all restocking after years of running down their supplies, especially in Europe, likely billions of rounds. There is only a finite capacity even operating at 100% and governments are going to take precedence, they also pay very well which I suspect has helped raise prices.
 
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