When were your “clickers” first diagnosed?

[dellet]

“Clickers” seems to be the newest plague keeping shooters from a perfect score. I think I even read a post where a follow up shot on a beer can was missed because the 22 LR bolt clicked causing the shot to be missed at 5 yards.

A quick search of the forum shows almost no mention of “clicker” before 2000. Did Covid or more likely the vaccine cause a “clicker” epidemic? Was it a hidden side effect of too much time reading forums during the lock down?

Yes l, I understand what it is and that it’s real, but most of the posts around 2000 that mention “clicker” also include “what is a”.

Was it a conspiracy between die makers and sponsored shooters to drive people away from neck sizing only and promote full length bushing dies gathering dust on the shelves?

It just seems unlikely that a problem that has been around as long as bottle neck cartridges was only diagnosed and named a few years ago without financial gains in mind. Maybe it’s just a popular thing to suffer from among shooters, kind of like having a trans kid in other circles?

Just a random question to think about as winter sets in. I know that a certain amount of new “clickers” and a few “clunkers” will set in when I get more active again in the spring. Hopefully my rifle is better immunized than my body.

Enjoy the day

 

[snert]

My clickers were diagnosed after I sold my 22-250 to my cousin and then bought it back. He absulutely destroyed my 100 Lapua brass by running it way too hot. Not only is the brass shot, but the cheaper brass I bought shoots badly. I am wondering if he toasted the barrel too cause it shoots like crap. I shoulda not sold it...or bought it back. Clickers suck..

 

[Syncrowave]

What's a "clicker"?

I'm still trying to keep my "hip" and "hep" straight.

 

[6MMsteve]

I've never had the clickers but some guys do and it's itchy, head scratchin thing it gets worse when it's hot

 

[JEFFPPC]

I guess I am a powderolic. I have had them for longer than I can remember.

 

[Knotwild]

I've been a novice reloader for 55 years or so. I don't know what a clicker is. So I asked the Artificial Intelligence in my browser (key word is Artificial). This is the answer I got:

A clicker in shooting refers to a device used to adjust the aim of a scope by making precise adjustments to the point of impact. It allows shooters to make incremental changes to their aim based on distance and conditions, enhancing accuracy in shooting sports.

I might not have them and I might not know what they are, but I do know that's not the proper answer.

 

[dellet]

What's a "clicker"?

According to my exhaustive 10 minutes of research, there have been ant least two eras and definitions of a “clicker”. In the early days PC (pre covid) a “clicker” seems to refer to someone who while shooting uses turret adjustments to stay on target, the sound of the turret clicking. Vs someone who silently uses a hold off or or hash marks.

Then around 2000, the term seemed to began being used to describe the sound of the bolt handle extracting a fired cartridge case that was stuck.

Both types of “clickers” seem to be associated with accuracy.

 

[steve210]

Clickers have been around for a long time in benchrest. They tend to load hotter that the average bear! I know they have been around at least 30-35 yrs.

 

[alf]

Clickers have been around way before the term became mainstream.....

 

[Murray Brook]

According to my exhaustive 10 minutes of research, there have been ant least two eras and definitions of a “clicker”. In the early days PC (pre covid) a “clicker” seems to refer to someone who while shooting uses turret adjustments to stay on target, the sound of the turret clicking. Vs someone who silently uses a hold off or or hash marks.

Then around 2000, the term seemed to began being used to describe the sound of the bolt handle extracting a fired cartridge case that was stuck.

Both types of “clickers” seem to be associated with accuracy.

Another type of clicker that I remember being referenced to years ago was when you pulled the trigger and there was no "boom".

 

[ELR LVR]

Clickers on the bolt upswing:
If I experience it when my load is not hot yet, there is something about the chamber too tight
If I experience it when everything else is right, but the load is getting hot,
that is a pressure sign to tune it down a notch.
---
Maybe before 2000, everyone ran with it, par for the course with running hot PLUS using a tight chamber
Maybe, they learned to loosen the specs on their chamber at some point and around 2000 it became another new phenomenon to newer shooters.

 

[Syncrowave]

...Then around 2000, the term seemed to began being used to describe the sound of the bolt handle extracting a fired cartridge case that was stuck...

Still not sure I get the idea.

So the bolt for some reason makes a "clicking" sound when you extract...? I've had to slap the bolt handle fairly hard a few times, and had to cycle it up and down multiple times to get a case out occasionally, but I don't think I've ever heard any clicking sound...I guess as usual I'm heplessly behind the times...

 

[DaveTooley]

I engineered clickers into the system in the late 80's trying to save primer pockets. That lead to custom dies which didn't solve the problem.
Soon after I had learned what not to do.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Under normal use, actions dont even use the extraction cam. The cases pull freely from the chamber. Like a revolver, it has no extraction cam. Its when you have sizing issues or over pressure issues that the case gets tight in the chamber and the extraction cam has to pull it out. Same deal on the revolver you have to smack the ejector rod to knock out the tight cases. In the case of the bolt action it makes a clicking sound when the tight case breaks loose because the root of the bolt handle slaps the race way. I think back in the day guys just threw out the brass and started over. In the neck sizing days pressures were low enough to probably never get into clickers. Now we all run really hot which requires fl sizing and dies have to work a lot better to prevent this issue.

 

[K22]

See Alex Wheeler's description.

While I never heard of the term "clickers", until I joined this Forum, I began to notice the "symptoms" embodied in this term many years ago when I neck sized. After several loadings the cases became tight in the chamber and the bolt would make a "click" sound when the case was extracted. I believe the main culprit was the inability of the neck sizing die to size the radial dimension of the case more than a shoulder bump issue.

In any event, as primarily a varmint hunter, I needed reliable reloads. After an experienced, precision shooter mentor convinced me to F/L size and schooled me on how to do it properly to obtain optimum case fit, the "symptoms" disappeared. One of the many reasons I stopped neck sizing a long time ago.

If my memory hasn't failed me, I do not remember any measurable effect on dispersion due to clickers, just functionality problems. The latter was the main reason I switched to F/L sizing and have never considered going back to neck sizing.

 

[dellet]

Still not sure I get the idea.

So the bolt for some reason makes a "clicking" sound when you extract...? I've had to slap the bolt handle fairly hard a few times, and had to cycle it up and down multiple times to get a case out occasionally, but I don't think I've ever heard any clicking sound...I guess as usual I'm heplessly behind the times...

Syncrowave, I’m sorry. I wrote the thread mostly in jest. “Clickers” has kind of become a buzz word and it seems to me people are using it almost as a right of passage and that can be dangerous.

@Alex Wheeler gave a wonderful explanation as to what causes the actual “click” in post #14, just make sure you read the root cause which is over pressure.

“Clickers”, formerly known as “hard to extract”, really only happen in a bolt action. It’s because of the extraction process. The same exact thing happens in an AR 15, you just can’t hear or feel it. It’s called an ejector swipe. It happens when the bolt turns and the case doesn’t when trying to pull it out of the chamber. The brass you had to hammer the bolt to get it to rotate, probably had a swipe on it.

Other styles of systems have the same issue, different solution. What might be a clicker in a bolt action, could need a rod down the barrel to tap out the stuck case in a single shot like a Contender or Handi-Rifle. Pump actions, a different method can be used that is more often associated with an AR. It’s called “mortoring”. You hold onto the slide or charging handle and bang the butt stock on the ground. The case or live round is basically slide hammered out, as long as the extractor doesn’t brake or slip of the case head. Bent rims are also a side effect.

What I find interesting is that “clickers” have become an acceptable part of hand loading. A number of work arounds have developed to hide the issue. Have a .471 based cartridge you can’t chamber because the web is bulged? Run it through a 45 ACP die, that will cure it. The commercial solution is a small base die. The attitude is more or less, keep trying to blow it up, until then we can just squeeze it back down and try again. A “clicker” has become a sign of reading pressure. If you’re not blowing primer pockets out in 3 firings, you only need a small base die, you still in the safe zone. Probably good for another 3 firings before you need to junk it.

Can’t talk about the acceptance of shooting over pressure loads without mentioning the new hybrid and steel webbed cases. The cartridge is good to 80,000 psi because it’s proofed to close 100,000 psi. What will you action take.

Just a different perspective being offered. Clickers seem to bother people the most because they cause you to need to reset your rifle in the bags between shots. My thoughts are why operate at extreme pressures.

 

[Syncrowave]

Syncrowave, I’m sorry. I wrote the thread mostly in jest. “Clickers” has kind of become a buzz word and it seems to me people are using it almost as a right of passage and that can be dangerous...

OK, I think I get it now. Thanks for taking the time to explain it.

And yes, I agree: Not sure why everyone seems to think you need to run every load at the ragged edge of coming unglued all of a sudden ... IME, the best precision is almost never in the hottest loads...and I don't think I've ever gotten to the point of seeing excessive pressure before I found a load that worked...and once I found a load that worked, I never experimented with "Let's spice it up with some Red Dot for a chaser"...but YMMV...some guys seem to think that if "a little bit" is good, then "WAY too much" must be better...

 

[xr650rRider]

It's not always over pressure, can be an undersized chamber. I guess in truest sense it was over pressure for Lapua brass matched to a Cooper 6.5x284 cut chamber. I know of 3 different Cooper 6.5x284's that had bad clickers after 1 firing. Clicker might be under-estimating the force to open bolt. Moderate/light loads as well. A small base die worked to keep it manageable. Different reamer and problem solved.

Actually a link was below titled "Chamber issue causing clickers"
https://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/chamber-issue-causing-clickers.4051143/

 

[DaveTooley]

It's always a clearance issue. There has to be room for expansion and contraction when firing as well as contraction and expansion when sizing.

 

[BoydAllen]

Syncrowave, I’m sorry. I wrote the thread mostly in jest. “Clickers” has kind of become a buzz word and it seems to me people are using it almost as a right of passage and that can be dangerous.

@Alex Wheeler gave a wonderful explanation as to what causes the actual “click” in post #14, just make sure you read the root cause which is over pressure.

“Clickers”, formerly known as “hard to extract”, really only happen in a bolt action. It’s because of the extraction process. The same exact thing happens in an AR 15, you just can’t hear or feel it. It’s called an ejector swipe. It happens when the bolt turns and the case doesn’t when trying to pull it out of the chamber. The brass you had to hammer the bolt to get it to rotate, probably had a swipe on it.

Other styles of systems have the same issue, different solution. What might be a clicker in a bolt action, could need a rod down the barrel to tap out the stuck case in a single shot like a Contender or Handi-Rifle. Pump actions, a different method can be used that is more often associated with an AR. It’s called “mortoring”. You hold onto the slide or charging handle and bang the butt stock on the ground. The case or live round is basically slide hammered out, as long as the extractor doesn’t brake or slip of the case head. Bent rims are also a side effect.

What I find interesting is that “clickers” have become an acceptable part of hand loading. A number of work arounds have developed to hide the issue. Have a .471 based cartridge you can’t chamber because the web is bulged? Run it through a 45 ACP die, that will cure it. The commercial solution is a small base die. The attitude is more or less, keep trying to blow it up, until then we can just squeeze it back down and try again. A “clicker” has become a sign of reading pressure. If you’re not blowing primer pockets out in 3 firings, you only need a small base die, you still in the safe zone. Probably good for another 3 firings before you need to junk it.

Can’t talk about the acceptance of shooting over pressure loads without mentioning the new hybrid and steel webbed cases. The cartridge is good to 80,000 psi because it’s proofed to close 100,000 psi. What will you action take.

Just a different perspective being offered. Clickers seem to bother people the most because they cause you to need to reset your rifle in the bags between shots. My thoughts are why operate at extreme pressures.

Generally, benchrest shooters' chambers are cut with custom designed reamers. The key to keeping away from clickers is not to have the back of the chamber be too small compared to an unfired case. Years ago, I knew a guy who built beautiful rifles for himself. He confided in me that he had once ordered a reamer that was slightly smaller at the back,thinking that it might improve accuracy, it didn't but it did cause a clicker problem. Factory chambers are so large in the body that if you are FL sizing you are unlikely to have a clicker. Where people get into trouble is specifying their reamer just a little too small at the back.